Marriage Troubles, Islamic Slavery Thrives.

This is happening every where you find Muslims.
By Stephen Brown, FrontPageMagazine, July 9, 2007
She said she was too young to marry. But for honestly expressing her opinion with upright, civilized dignity against her impending forced marriage, the 15-year old Muslim, Turkish-German girl was rewarded with a vicious blow to the head that knocked her nearly unconscious to the floor. Her savage assailant? Her own father.
The parent of the unwilling bride-to-be had returned to his native Turkey with his teenaged daughter, who had grown up in Germany, to arrange her marriage to a cousin 12 years her senior. The cousin was present with his whole clan when his intended received the brutal chastisement. No one reacted. She should have known better. Like many women in traditional, patriarchal, Muslim-Turkish families, she has nothing to say about her marital fate. Moreover, previously in Germany, her father had already beaten her many times for refusing to answer her cousin’s letters, until she relented.
Having washed her face after the blow as ordered, the subdued teenager took her place again with the others, now silent and sullen under watchful eyes, and listened to the negotiations over the ‘bride-price’, in which property, money and houses were mentioned as well as her attributes. In addition, the wedding date, the number of children she was to bear and the date of their arrival were also discussed. However, since no deal was reached, the young woman was able to return to Germany unmarried to await her next “suitor.”
It is estimated that 30,000 women among Germany’s 3.2 million Muslim population, of which 2.7 million are of Turkish origin, are subjected to forced marriages every year. Hundreds of young Muslim girls disappear annually from their German elementary and high schools to travel to their native Turkey and other Muslim countries, never to return. Many are told they are going on holidays and do not realize they are to be married until after their arrival, after which their passports, jeans and freedom are taken away and replaced with head scarves and confinement. Moreover, it is only on their wedding day that some see their husbands for the first time.
But not all the Muslim girls – and men – who return to their countries for a spouse remain there. Some later bring their marital partners to the Federal Republic as part of a family reunification program to live in the ever expanding Muslim ghettos present in every large German city. In 2003, from Turkey alone, 10,003 women joined their husbands in Germany, while 7,769 men were sponsored by their wives, according to German foreign office statistics.
But while forced marriages are bad enough, violating the basic Western precept concerning an individual’s right of choice as well as the woman’s personal dignity, it is the inhuman way the women in these unwanted unions are treated afterwards that has drawn the special ire of human rights groups. In many cases, the new wives live a slave-like existence for years in their new families, toiling long hours at housework under the rule of an oppressive mother-in-law, while suffering extensive physical and emotional abuse, sometimes from the day after their wedding, at the hands of their husbands. It is estimated that thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Muslim women in Germany endure daily such barbaric conditions.
Needless to say, freedom of movement, to come and go as they wish, also does not exist for the female newlyweds. Even Muslim girls who grew up in Germany and had enjoyed this basic right in their outwardly integrated families are now confined to the home of their new husbands and may not leave unless accompanied by a male.
But it is worse for the “import-brides” (called ‘gelin’ in Turkish). The only glimpse some will ever have of their new country is from the window of the car that takes them from the airport to the apartment where they will live, and sometimes never leave, for years. One female German social worker in Munich, who deals with Muslim women fleeing abusive, forced and arranged marriages, said they are “overwhelmed” with their first view of the city from high up on a television tower. They never knew Munich was so big and had such things as train stations and a zoo.
“Many women do not know where they have been living for years,” said the social worker, saying most had never left their Muslim neighborhood, and even their apartments. Some of these women, she added, are astounded to learn that rape is a crime in Germany, which indicates their isolation from German society and the brutality they had fled. Indeed, one observer correctly stated these ‘gelin’ may have arrived in Germany but had never really lived there.
It is also harder for import-brides to seek help, since most speak no German. Moreover, fear may overrule any attempt to break out of their abusive situations, since the whole family clan will then pursue them. As well, many of the abused wives are threatened with death if they go to the police. And those who do flee are also potential murder victims, since leaving a traditional, patriarchal Muslim home carries a death sentence.
Moreover, murders have also occurred when a woman refuses a forced marriage. An Afghan woman, for example, was killed in Germany when she refused to marry her brother-in-law after her husband had died.
“Forced marriages are our biggest problem,” said a Berlin integration official, probably to no one’s surprise. And the problem has become so pervasive that most German cities now have special establishments for Muslim women fleeing the marital home.
Another disturbing issue concerning import-brides in forced/arranged marriages is their young ages. The youngest victim of an honor murder in Germany, for example, was a 14-year-old, married Muslim girl; while a 22-year-old Turkish man was discovered living with his 11-year-old wife in Dusseldorf. The people back in the couple’s village told a German reporter it was not a forced marriage but rather love that spurred the union.
But even if a girl/woman does not protest an arranged marriage, remaining silent, does that mean she has consented? Probably not, since women subjected to such marriages are regarded, and afterwards often treated, as mere chattel with no opinion or right to dissent. For unlike marriage in western countries where matrimony is regarded as a sacrament, marriage in the Muslim world, as well as in other places, is regarded as a contract, and not between individuals, but rather between families or clans. The individuality of the woman is not recognized let alone the concept of her having equal rights with the husband.
The “bride-price” is a part of the contract that even less well-off Muslims in Germany can now afford thanks to bank loans. This payment for a wife is regarded as establishing the right of the husband’s family to the children of the union as well as compensation to her family for the loss of her reproductive power, which now will increase the size of her spouse’s family or clan. Thus, it is not surprising that the 15-year-old girl mentioned above, whose anti-forced marriage protest was answered with her father’s fist, sat listening to how many children she was to have and when.
“They regard women simply as a womb on two legs,” said a female Turkish-German writer, summing up the prospective bride’s position best.
And if the contracted woman does not produce the desired children, then she is simply sent back to her family in disgrace and another is bought, the first wife’s value now almost worthless on the marriage market.
German-Muslim feminists blame politically correct women’s groups, multiculturalists and leftists in Germany for allowing this disgraceful situation to continue where women are severely ill-treated and regarded as nothing more than a source of wealth for one family and babies for another. These leftist Germans, say the Muslim feminists, refuse to criticize and intervene, since this may damage their unrealizable dream of a multicultural society. Their leftist hypocrisy does even cause them to oppose the polygamy Muslims are now allowed to practice in Germany (and in France) as long as the extra wives were married legally in their native countries (another victory for sharia law).
But what these German-Muslim feminists do not realize is that now little, if anything, can probably be done to remedy the situation. Besides the fact that a criminal, society-destroying multiculturalism allows even the most offensive and archaic custom to flourish in Germany, forced marriages and honor murders are very deeply rooted in Muslim-Middle Eastern culture. And this culture is now well established in large parts of German cities where western laws and values have been repealed.
“No laws are valid for us,” confirmed one teenaged Muslim woman, who fled her home after an uncle had raped her and was living under a family death sentence for having sullied the family honor.
The question now remains whether Germany’s liberal democratic society can survive such anti-civilizational practices as forced/arranged, marriages where so many women are placed in such an inferior position by a false legality. Probably not. When a father is allowed to sell his daughter in a commercial transaction disguised as marriage to a man sometimes many years her senior against her free will and with no choice on her part regarding the marriage or motherhood, all without protest or protection from the surrounding society, then freedom and dignity are dying in that society and a new form of slavery and falsehood is taking hold.
25 January, 2009 at 3:35 am
killa your right about one thing i’m not from your country but i do belive this site is open to the world ie the world wide web. Unlike islam its a choice if you wish to go there. Secondly your right again my spelling is not very good but then Michelle has pointed out you aint to good at the english spelling yourself are you and no i have not read the Bible thats becose im an athiest but i still know right from wrong and i know islam is wrong its hatefull murderous. Oh yes you claim to be GAY well arnt you lucky you seem to live in the U.S.of.A as i do belive you will be put to death in an islamic country
18 February, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Hi Doctorbulldog
Im Angie Choo from Malaysia. May i know, is the photo below belongs to you? I need to ask a favor.I’m making a video about gender equality for Musawah Movement. Please let me know. Thank you so much.
18 February, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Mussawah:
http://www.musawah.org/pressroom.asp
“Musawah on a strong push for equal rights
“By SHAHANAAZ HABIB, February 18, 2009
“KUALA LUMPUR: Musawah (The Global Meeting for Equality and Justice in the Muslim Family) will set up and operate a secretariat here for the first two years.
“Yesterday, the participants agreed to carry the push for equality and justice for women forward.
“They are seeking an end to discriminatory laws and practices against women made in the name of Islam. They are also seeking the right to an alternative interpretation of the Quran in line with present-day realities.”
In other words, they are fools who want to be “Muslim” without the whole evil Islam business.
+ + +
You’re not the “Kangkung” Choo, vainly preaching “Chinese-Malay-Indian ‘unity’” are you? Professional dreamer?
19 February, 2009 at 5:33 am
Hahaha Wow… am i that famous? u still remember me. hahaha! aiyoo That was long time ago. Now for me no comments la for Malaysia politic. How are u? =)
19 February, 2009 at 9:11 am
Angie,
RE: Photograph.
That particular photograph is from a New York Times article a couple of years ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/magazine/09BRI.html?_r=1&ex=1153195200&en=f7e57a9d8fc63d8b&ei=5070&emc=eta1
The article is a good read, as far as the New York Times goes.
The NY Times also included a slideshow of child bride marriages along with the article, here:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/07/06/magazine/20060709_BRIDES_SLIDESHOW_1.html
And, the direct link to the photo you were asking about (also included in the slideshow) is located here:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/04/magazine/brides.650.3.jpg
I hope this will be of some assistance to you.
Cheers
19 February, 2009 at 12:36 pm
I’m okay. Lu ho bo? Wo chin ho. No longer at risk of roti food poisoning in JB.
So, no problem with the characterizations, “VAINLY preaching Chinese-Malay-Indian unity”, and “Professional dreamer”, and “fools who want to be Muslim without the whole evil Islam business” ?
19 February, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Angie,
To understand Muslim attitudes towards women and marriage, here’s a good start:
http://brianakira.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/52-year-old-man-fucked-9-year-old-girl/
23 February, 2009 at 2:49 am
Hi doctorbulldog
Thanks for the great help. Take care!
23 February, 2009 at 10:49 am
Angie,
No problem. Good luck with your video, and when you get a trailer together for it, let me know and I’ll post it here on the website.
Cheers
10 May, 2009 at 9:47 pm
It is true that such things are happening everywhere in many communities. Specifically to this incident, it has no relation with any islamic rules. There are specific and strict rules and regulations for marriage in Islam. (Pelase refer and study the Quran). Nowhere it is said to torture women in Islam. It is the people who misbehave and manipulates Islam rules and regulations for their own benefits. These people are not real muslims who lives as per the Quran. They are convicts in front of Islam and should be punished as per the law. They cannot escape from Allah (SWA). Islam stands for Love, Respect and Kindness.
Please refer and try to understand the real Quran and its purpose.
Thanks
10 May, 2009 at 11:24 pm
“Please refer and try to understand the real Quran and its purpose.”
Which koran is the real one, Kamarudeen?
This one? “They did not kill him (Jesus), nor did
they crucify him (Jesus), but they thought they did”
(Sura 4:137 or thereabouts)
The purpose of the koran, like all similar works of
satan and false prophets like Mohammed, is to deny
the truth of salvation and eternal life through
Jesus Christ, and to keep people in bondage to sin
and death and hell.
It has worked well in condemning 1.x billion people
to death and hell, unless they choose to repent and
accept God’s gift of salvation and eternal life
through Jesus Christ, His only begotten son.
10 May, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Correction – should read 4:157, not 4:137.
10 May, 2009 at 10:13 pm
“Kamarudeen Says:
10 May, 2009 at 9:47 pm
It is true that such things are happening everywhere in many communities. Specifically to this incident, it has no relation with any islamic rules. There are specific and strict rules and regulations for marriage in Islam. (Pelase refer and study the Quran). Nowhere it is said to torture women in Islam. It is the people who misbehave and manipulates Islam rules and regulations for their own benefits. These people are not real muslims who lives as per the Quran. They are convicts in front of Islam and should be punished as per the law. They cannot escape from Allah (SWA). Islam stands for Love, Respect and Kindness. ”
“Please refer and try to understand the real Quran and its purpose. ”
Unfortunately for you that the whole of the islamic system practiced outside the west seems to throw away the quran and yet they call themselves muslim.
It appears to us the critic that islam is schizophrenic it says the it is for “Womens rights” and yet when practiced outsdie of secular laws the real face of islam shows itself to be a abuser of women and thier rights.
This is why islam as a system must reform or go away…
17 May, 2009 at 5:21 am
This is so biased1
Not all Muslims are like that;and it’s culture and traditions, not ISLAM itself!
Maybe we should try understanding that-before judging anything just by some words………..
17 May, 2009 at 8:41 am
Show us an example of a successful islamic society, we will wait.
17 May, 2009 at 10:11 am
Raniyah
Have you ever wondered why non muslims are so biased against islam?
Somehow I didnt think you did…
The mujahedeen are prime examples of why people like me reject islam. With all the attacks they do agianst non muslims and muslims alike it offends people like me.
Other examples include various islamic websites, blogs attacking Christians, Jews, Israel. And you dont think that those writings are offensive to people like me?
If islam was the way to go… It is a failure & I would suggest a person like you get out of it before it takes your life.
17 May, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Hello, again…..,
Look, i understand where you are coming from, i really do.
But why you’re blaming the whole Muslim society for it, i don’t understand !
You’re saying that ALL Muslims are to blame for the bombings….?
That’s like saying , all Jews are to blame for the Israel/Palestine conflict.
That’s only a few narrow-minded Muslims, not everyone!
Like me, for example, I have more non-Muslim friends than Muslim.
You see a Muslim guy witha beird, and a prayer cap, you think he’s a bomber or terrorist?
But you see David Beckham with his mohiccan and peircings and you think that he’s a trendsetter?
You see a veiled Muslim woman, you think she’s selfobsessed;whereas you see the woman free enough to go out semi-naked, you think she’s liberated?????????
17 May, 2009 at 6:35 pm
“Look, i understand where you are coming from, i really do.”
Uhm, just what is it that you understand? ‘Cause I can’t figure it out.
“But why you’re blaming the whole Muslim society for it, i don’t understand !”
See? I knew you didn’t understand. Let’s back up a bit to your previous comments:
“Not all Muslims are like that;and it’s culture and traditions, not ISLAM itself!
Maybe we should try understanding that-before judging anything just by some words………..”
Alright… So, let’s see what the article is talking about:
Child Brides, forced marriages, domestic violence, honor killings, and—in general—the demotion of women to second class citizens.
You make the outrageous claim that this is just cultural and traditional, not having to do with Islam. Well, let’s take a look at what Islam teaches:
First of all, let’s use Muhammad as the perfect example for all Muslims to emulate as cited in the Qur’an (Sura 33:21):
“Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah.”
So, what does this tell us? It tells us (in a nutshell) that if you hope to avoid Hell, then you should follow Muhammad’s example.
In fact the Qur’an further states:
“You [Muhammad] are blessed with a great moral character.” – Sura 68:4
What was Muhammad’s “beautiful pattern of conduct” and “great moral character” as it relates to the aforementioned article with which we are currently discussing?
Well, let’s take the article’s main issues one at a time:
1) Child Brides:
I don’t think I have to remind you that Aisha was just six years old when Muhammad married her, and was a prepubescent bride of nine years old when Muhammad finally consummated the marriage.
So, if one is to follow Muhammad’s example, one would have no problems with marrying a little girl and having sex with her even before she hit puberty.
If this were merely a “cultural” phenomena that has nothing to do with Islam, then Muhammad should have kept his ding-dong out of the ho-hoes. After all, he is suppose to be “blessed with a great moral character” and should have easily risen above the draconian hedonistic morals of his day. Especially since he is suppose to be “a beautiful pattern of conduct” for all Muslims to follow.
2) Forced Marriages.
Hmmm… True, Muhammad did once say (as recorded in Bukhari):
“A previously married woman shall not be married without being consulted and a virgin shall not be married without her consent.”
On the face of it, it looks like Islam forbids forced marriages. But, as is the case with almost everything in Islam, there is a double-standard there.
Let’s look at the record:
Sahih Muslim Book 008, No. 3305-3308
A woman without a husband [who has been previously married] has more right to her person than her wali [guardian], and a virgin’s consent must be asked from her, and her silence implies her consent.
So, what is the accepted interpretation of those hadiths?
According to “The social structure of Islam Introduction to the sociology of Islam Orientalism,” page 110:
And, that seems to be the general consensus. On the Sunni Forum, take note of the following thread:
And, a lone commentator humbly asked if this were truly the case, to which the author restated in the affirmative his previous comments.
Obviously, if the author had been in error, there would have been millions of Muslims screaming for his head! But, aside from a lone commentator asking for clarification, there was only silence… And, as Muhammad put it, “silence is consent.”
3) Domestic Violence:
Qur’an 4:34 – [...] “And those [wives] you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.” [...]
Qur’an 2:223 – “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.”
In other words, it is okay for a man to rape his wife anyway he sees fit…
Therefore, since the Qur’an permits men to hit their wives and rape them, Islam promotes domestic violence.
4) Honor Killings:
As much as Muslims would like to distance themselves from these horrendous murders, the simple fact is that Islam allows them.
Muhammad famously said, “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Bukhari Vol. 9,Book 84,No. 57)
Killing someone for apostasy is a form of honor killing.
Also, in the Reliance of the Traveler—a manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy —there is an interesting section that states:
“retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right.” However, “not subject to retaliation” is “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring.” (‘Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
In other words, a parent who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.
Why does this stipulation appear in a manual of Islamic law if this has nothing to do with Islam?
5) The demotion of women to second class citizens:
Sheesh, there are just too many Islamic texts which support this idea that I’ll be here all day. But I will mention just a few to make my point:
Qur’an 2:228 – [...] “And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise. ”
Did you catch that? Men are a “degree above” women…
Qur’an 4:34 (Yes, I covered this earlier, but here is how that Sura begins) – “Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other,” [...]
And,
Qur’an 4:11 – “The share of the male shall be twice that of a female [...]”
Hmmmm… Men are worth twice as much as a woman… How quaint.
Qur’an 2:282 – “And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her.”
Well, obviously Muhammad thinks women are dumber than men. Don’t believe me? Well, here’s the Hadith that explains the above Sura:
“Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said, “Yes.” He said, “This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.” (Bukhari Vol. 3,Book 48, No. 826)
So, in conclusion, this IS about Islam and its effects on cultural norms.
“You’re saying that ALL Muslims are to blame for the bombings….?”
Hmmm… That’s odd. I don’t seem to be able to find that statement in anyone’s comment, except yours. Could you be putting words in someone’s mouth?
Well, that’s all the time I have for now. I’d love to sit and chat with you, but I’ve got a life.
Cheers
17 May, 2009 at 7:43 pm
She has a lot of non muslim friends and I suppose that’s great. But do you think she has considered that she is putting her friends and herself in danger just by being friendly? Who can tell who she has angered by this kind of behavior, a brother, father, cousin, uncle, friend, someone she has never even met? I not sayin I’m against it I just sayin its dangerous. It’s not really any different than our guvment saying that everything is cool with islam as they build girls schools that eventually enrage the men and end up being attacked.
This is a battle that must be waged among muslims to see which side wins out. Our guvment pretending that everythings a ok, nay,peaceful, friendly and fair in islam is not helping the matter either. In twenty five years they will prolly refer to this time as the phoney baloney war. That’s if there are any of us left to write our version of it that is.
Right now muslims treat their women like 19th century Americans treated their horses. Maybe they should get back to us when they have joined civilization.
17 May, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Raniyah
To answer your questions…
But why you’re blaming the whole Muslim society for it, i don’t understand !
Because too many times muslims do harm to others. And for what exactly? Because ‘Ilah’ told them in the quran or hadiths by the mouth of a twisted imam? Its too bad many muslims cant remove the mujahedeen and proclaim non violence to non muslims in islamic countries.
You’re saying that ALL Muslims are to blame for the bombings….?
Not at all… but islam as a system thru jihad requires many muslims to destroy non muslims. Hell even muslims attack other muslims. I don’t blame you for terror attacks but I blame islam for allowing those imams and others to turn muslim people from humans to monsters.
That’s only a few narrow-minded Muslims, not everyone!
Sadly there are many muslims that are not merely ‘narrow minded’ but purposfully following satanic orders from others.
You see a Muslim guy witha beird, and a prayer cap, you think he’s a bomber or terrorist?
I dont actually… Many muslim men or muslimas are not a threat to me. It is the ideology of islam that is the problem. IF thier actions are not violent towards me or others like me they are NEVER bothered.
But you see David Beckham with his mohiccan and peircings and you think that he’s a trendsetter?
I am not into that type of style, fashion…
You see a veiled Muslim woman, you think she’s selfobsessed;whereas you see the woman free enough to go out semi-naked, you think she’s liberated?????????
IF I see am muslima wearing a burka, or hijab I wonder if they CHOOSE to go out like that. Or if thier culture / family FORCES them to wear that. The style of the burkah and hijab are merely from islamic countries and doesnt show adequate morality.
Women from the west who wear sexy clothes like bikinis or other types of outerwear do so for the attention of others. Most women I have met only dress like that for the beach or swimming pool. Very rarely do western women go out in public wearing that type of clothing.
17 May, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Well, let me tell you something!
Ok, there are Muslims who are racist,and that.
And me having non-Muslim friends, why would anyone have a problem with that?
My father- well, hello-my Father’s a Jew, and my mom’s a catholic Christian-im the Muslim here!
There isn’t a certain age that you have to get married by.it’s just that Islam completes half of your religion.
if you look at the FACT side of Islam, you’ll know what it’s about, but if you just want to hear all the anti-stuff, than that’s what you’re doing. you’re just hearing, reading, whatever you want to, not the actual facts!
NOTHING’S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A WILLING HEART.
And, since when do Imams teach you stuff like that?
why do they have the title “imam” then.
That’s like saying Rabbi’s teach you how to kill and stuff.
it’s the 21st century, which is making you see this at this angle.
also, incase you have forgotten, Muhammad (pbuh) gave women equal rights-so?
women may be treated as 2nd class citizens. but thats people-since when does the Qu’ran tell you to treat women like that?
YES, I understand that there are some competible, OTT Muslims-but to be honest, which religion doesn’t think that their’s is the best?
and think before you go describing the prophet.
the prophet only took in women that no other man wanted to marry-or there wasn’t a chance to marry!
18 May, 2009 at 12:42 am
You certainly have your blinders on.
Let me reiterate:
Qur’an 4:34 – [...] “And those [wives] you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.” [...]
Qur’an 2:223 – “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.”
Qur’an 4:11 – “The share of the male shall be twice that of a female [...]”
Qur’an 2:282 – “And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her.”
“Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said, “Yes.” He said, “This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.” (Bukhari Vol. 3,Book 48, No. 826)
And, let me elaborate on that one. There are more women in Hell than men:
Muhammad) passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.” (Bukhari: volume 1, book 6, number 301
If you really think Muhammad gave women equal rights, then why can’t Islamic women marry more than one man?
After all, Sura 4:3 says that men “may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. ”
As many times as I’ve read and studied the Qur’an and associated commentary, I’ve yet to see anywhere in which women are afforded the same right to marry two or three or four men.
Obviously, Muhammad didn’t give women equal rights. That’s a 20th century invention.
You see, the Qur’an holds the spiritual works of men and women in equal regard and acknowledges that they are completely interdependent as to their very existence:
“And their Lord answereth them, ‘I will not suffer the work of him among you that worketh, whether of male or female, to be lost. The one of you is the issue of the other.” (Qur’an 3:195)
“Mankind fear your Lord, who created you of a single soul, and from it created its mate.” (Qur’an 4:1)
But, that does not mean that they are regarded as having equal worth as people:
“And it is for the women to act as they (the husbands) act by them, in all fairness; but the men are a step above them.” (Qur’an 2:228)
“Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other.”(Qur’an 4:34)
Quite simply, the Qur’an states that men are superior to women.
How is that equality? It’s not.
As to your ridiculous claim that “the prophet only took in women that no other man wanted to marry-or there wasn’t a chance to marry,” perhaps you have yet to really study historic Islamic texts:
Let’s look at Muhammad’s marriage to a seventeen-year-old Jewish girl named Safiyyah whom he took from the plunder of Khaibar:
“Narrated Abdul Aziz:
Anas said, [...]We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, ‘O Allah’s Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.’ The Prophet said, ‘Go and take any slave girl.’ He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.’ So the Prophet said, ‘Bring him along with her.’ So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, ‘Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.’” Anas added: “The Prophet then manumitted her and married her.” [...] (Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367)”
So, to summarize the above hadith, Muhammad and his buddies killed a bunch of husbands in Khaibar, then Muhammad said that Dihya could have any one of the recently widowed women and their daughters, who were now slaves. But, some guy told Muhammad that Dihya had picked a really hot looking babe, so Muhammad decided to check her out himself. When Muhammad saw her, he was obviously smitten by her beauty and decided to take her away from Dihya and marry her himself.
Now, I may have embellished the story a bit, but even without my embellishments, it’s pretty darn obvious that someone else (Dihya) was more than willing to “marry” Safiyya and had more than “a chance” to marry her. But, Muhammad, upon seeing Safiyya, wanted Safiyya for himself.
The facts certainly don’t fit your belief.
Okay, so let’s move on to Aisha:
Al-Tabari records that Aisha was initially betrothed to Jubayr ibn Mut’im. When Khawla bint Hakim suggested that Muhammad marry Aisha after the death of Muhammad’s first wife Khadijah, the previous agreement regarding marriage of Aisha with ibn Mut’im was put aside “by common consent.”
Gee, that doesn’t fit your theory, either…
Well, it’s getting late and I’m tired, so I’ll avoid pointing out several other wives Muhammad married for reasons other than what you stated. However, since you keep pointing out that you have lots of non-Muslim friends, I just thought I’d remind you of what the Qur’an has to say about that:
Qur’an 5:51 – O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Qur’an 3:118 – O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people; they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.
Qur’an 3:28 – Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
Qur’an 4:144 – O you who believe! take not for friends Unbelievers rather than Believers: do you wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?
And, since you have Jewish and Christian parents:
Qur’an 5:82 – Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
One wonders how you resolve the internal conflicts without losing your mind…
18 May, 2009 at 10:12 am
Wateva, man.
u ain’t trying 2 understand.
try looking at it, from my perspective.
ok, think about it.there’s nothing wrong with Islam. it’s just a few odd apples.and what are you? Islam extremist?
PS_____what do you mean “hot-looking” babe?
18 May, 2009 at 1:38 pm
“Wateva, man.”
Wow! What a well thought out, cogent rebuttal…
“u ain’t trying 2 understand. try looking at it, from my perspective.”
What’s there to understand? You obviously don’t have any problems following a mass murdering sexual deviant who believes that all women are mentally deficient. And, I tried looking at it from your perspective; I only came away with a headache while attempting to reconcile all of your contradictory cognitions which are in direct conflict with Islamic texts.
“ok, think about it.there’s nothing wrong with Islam. it’s just a few odd apples.”
I beg to differ. Islam’s founder, Muhammad, was a despicable excuse for a human being, much less a prophet to be held up as a model for moral behavior. You might say that Muhammad was THE bad apple from whence your “few odd apples” derived.
I believe the Christians quote Jesus Christ as saying something like, “every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.” And, something about, “You shall know them by their fruits.”
“and what are you? Islam extremist?”
I’m what you might call “one of them there scholars” who once fatuously defended Islam until forced to dig in and really study Islam instead of just repeating that which I had been taught—which of course, conveniently omitted anything which put Islam and Muhammad in a bad light. So, if telling the truth and not hiding the dark side of Islam makes me an Islamic extremist, then so be it.
“PS_____what do you mean “hot-looking” babe?”
It means that she was a pulchritudinous young lady.
Cheers
18 May, 2009 at 10:41 am
There is something very wrong with islam, Raniyah.
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, warned of false
christs and false prophets (such as Mohammed),
who would appear and deceive many, as in Matthew 24:24:
“False messiahs and false prophets will appear.
They will work spectacular, miraculous signs and
do wonderful things to deceive, if possible, even those whom God has chosen.”
False prophets like Mohammed traffic in human souls,
such as yours, if you let them.
18 May, 2009 at 11:20 am
Raniyah, religion is ment to bring peace happyness love and careing. Islam is fear hatered murder tell me another religion that puts to death women just for doing somthing miner or cuts peoples hands and feet off or stones women and young girls to death or hangs people in the market square or there holy men encorages young people to blow themselvs up just to kill others but wont do it them selvs Allah is mercifull is he well thats what you muslims say so where is all the mercey in all that
18 May, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Well, hello!
your name is Mullah Lodabullah, is it not?
What does that mean. Quite clearly obvious that you are Muslim, so what u chatting about, hmm?
Also, sharia law is in Arabia. Incase you didn’t know the Pope was thinking of bringing it here!duh?!?!
and i’m not going to tell you what other religions are like that, because unlike you i’m not Racist, nor a Extremist.
18 May, 2009 at 2:14 pm
“Incase you didn’t know the Pope was thinking of bringing it here!duh?!?!”
I’m aware of the ultra-Liberal Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, endorsing it, but he is from King Henry the Eighth’s Church of England, which is nowhere near anything to the the Catholic church of which the Pope is Supreme Pontiff.
In fact, the Vatican—whose policy is most certainly set by the Pope—had harsh criticism for Dr. Williams approval of Sharia Law:
The Vatican’s head of relations with Islam has criticised the Archbishop of Canterbury as mistaken and “naive” for suggesting that some aspects of Sharia law in Britain were unavoidable.
If you could find a link to where you heard about the Pope “thinking of bringing” Sharia Law to any country, I would kindly ask that you post it here for our own edification.
Cheers
18 May, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Your quite right doctorbulldog im ashamed to say we have that idiot Archbishop of Canterbury im sure he’s a muslim mole. Not quite shure what to say about him realy as im at a loss for words other than i think his new holy robs should buckle up at the back
18 May, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Yeah, I’m still trying to wrap my head around Dr. Williams’ support for homosexuals, since that would appear to be in direct opposition to the tenets of Sharia Law, which, of course, he also supports.
It is certainly enough to make one’s head hurt when attempting to reconcile Dr. Williams’ contradictory belief system.
Perhaps, someday I’ll down a couple of aspirin and brave another go at it…
Cheers
18 May, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Among other things, Raniyah. I’m a good friend of
Mullah Fullazabullah, and I’ve come across another
rhyming mullah with a similar name to mine
Yes, I would like to see the cite or link where the
Pope is thinking of bringing [sharia law] in also.
There are two major systems which will come to prominence in the end times – one is largely religious, described as Mystery, Babylon the Great,
which will ride to power on another, largely political, which will give rise to Antichrist.
The Antichrist (Beast) will turn the political powers against the false religious system of Mystery Babylon, and destroy it, before Jesus Christ
in turn returns and casts the Beast and False Prophet alive into the lake of fire.
There is a major marketing push going on to present islam, Judaism and Christianity as “three great monotheistic Abrahamic faiths”, all worshipping the same God, but this is deception and delusion.
“allah” has nothing in common with God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), and has no power to save sinners through “reversion” to islam or otherwise.
All three “Abrahamic faiths” do however have elements which seek to impose laws on humanity, and
to control it.
First is islam, with its push for a global caliphate under sharia “law”.
Second is Judaism, with the nascent Sanhedrin seeking to impose Noahide Laws upon gentiles.
thesanhedrin.org/en/main/organization
Organizational structure of the Nascent Sanhedrin
(Sub Courts) Court for Bnei Noah (ie Noahide Court)
thesanhedrin.org/en/index.php/Jerusalem_Court_for_Issues_of_Bnei_Noah
Thirdly are elements of Christianity, which believe they have a mandate to impose Old Testament laws upon the nations and establish dominion over the earth in order for Jesus Christ to return.
(search Dominionism Reconstructionism)
Note that the Sanhedrin does not (yet) have any recognised powers; Dominionists have dropped out of view, and islam is currently leading the pack in the race to place the planet under a counterfeit set of laws, but this could change, and all will occur in accordance with God’s prophetic will and purpose (not “allah’s”, or mine for that matter).
We see through a glass darkly, but we are heading for the perfect storm, when people reject God’s plan of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, in favour of laws such as sharia, noahide and “Old Testament”, which have no power to save anyone, but we all are condemned by the laws of God and our inability to obey any or all of them.
Grace does what the law cannot.
Who will you trust for your salvation, Raniyah?
Jesus Christ, who has redeemed us through His precious blood shed on the Cross for us, or your ability to obey sets of laws (often counterfeit).
Choose wisely!
18 May, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Raniyah
“Also, sharia law is in Arabia. Incase you didn’t know the Pope was thinking of bringing it here!duh?!?!”
If you take the time to research about sharia laws they are not as helpful to non muslims as you think.
Look at the problems in Egypt, Saudi and other Islamic countries that sharia create for Christians, Jews & other religions in those countries.
31 May, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Where did you get this picture? I am trying to find rights free images of child brides I can use in a presentation for a Women’s Studies class. Do you know if this image is rights free?
31 May, 2009 at 11:40 pm
RE: Photograph.
That particular photograph is from a New York Times article a couple of years ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/magazine/09BRI.html?_r=1&ex=1153195200&en=f7e57a9d8fc63d8b&ei=5070&emc=eta1
The NY Times also included a slide-show of child bride marriages along with the article, here:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/07/06/magazine/20060709_BRIDES_SLIDESHOW_1.html
And, the direct link to the photo you were asking about (also included in the slideshow) is located here:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/04/magazine/brides.650.3.jpg
If you are using it in an educational way for a Women’s Studies class, I’m pretty sure you will be covered under the “Fair Use” clause in the copyright laws:
§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. [...]
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
I hope this will be of some assistance to you.
Cheers
12 June, 2009 at 9:16 pm
and the funiest thing is, was GOD a pedophile when HE made virgin Mary pregnant ? she was only 11 years old that time.
I think, there’s no pedophile terms in GOD. The important thing is, is he marry her or just consummate her.
12 June, 2009 at 11:22 pm
And thats the wierdest idea so far on this blog…
13 June, 2009 at 3:32 am
sure, we have to be fair.
How old was virgin Mary when Joseph married her ? and how old was Joseph ?
BTY, in this age, I personally can not understand if a well educated person would mary little girl. But I can understand if it come from a ‘ little uneducated country’ , like afghan and etc.
13 June, 2009 at 12:03 pm
The Bible never says how old they are.
The apocryphal “Protoevangelium Jacobi” ( also called the “Infancy Gospel of James” ) is demonstrably a second century fabrication and is the source of these ridiculous age claims.
Only the gullible believe such fairy tales.
13 June, 2009 at 5:24 am
Nice try but the moral equivalency arguments are never valid. A pedophile is a predator their goal is power and to harm children. Actual force is used; a virgin birth by a heavenly deity is not in the same league. Mohammeds rape of his child bride continued for years and she was not his only victim. I am afraid by any modern standards of decency mohammed was a freak.
You did highlight one of the west’s biggest problems with the cult of islam. Using mohammeds twisted lifestyle as an example and an excuse to copy it in modern times disgusts us. At least those of us watching how many tens of millions of muslims being victimized on a daily basis by other muslims claiming they have a right to do it. It is ironic that many muslims hate us and call us names like islamophobic when we fight harder for muslim rights than they do.
Cheers
13 June, 2009 at 10:35 am
First of all, no where does the Bible mention how old Mary was when she got pregnant. So, any age that you may assign to her is mere speculation.
That being said, we CAN reasonably assume that she was older than 11.
Mary, quite simply, couldn’t have been 11 years old when she became pregnant. The Jewish custom at the time was to betroth a girl when she was 12 or older.
12 years old being the youngest.
Joachim Jeremias, Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus (Fortress Press, 1969, translated from the third German edition, 1962), p. 365, cites Strack and Billerbeck (II, 374), that the usual age for a girl’s betrothal was between twelve and twelve and a half. He cites M.Ket. v.2 that the marriage itself ordinarily took place one year after betrothal.
Now, notice that we find in Luke chapter 1, the following:
26-27: And in the sixth month [note: that would be six months after Mary's cousin Elizabeth became pregnant] the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
So, we can conclude that Mary was already betrothed to Joseph when she became pregnant, which would mean that she was 12+ years old.
And, for God to be a pedophile, wouldn’t He have had to have had physical SEX with Mary? Obviously, He didn’t have sex with her, but just said “be” and it was.
Muhammad, on the other hand…
13 June, 2009 at 12:24 pm
The last line say’s it all doctorbulldog Muhammad, on the othe hand. Now i do belive the age of the little girl was documented was it not, no change in Islam then
13 June, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Sex at Three Years and One Day
In contrast to Simeon ben Yohai’s dictum that sex with a little girl is
permitted under the age of three years, the general teaching of the
Talmud is that the rabbi must wait until a day after her third birthday.
She could be taken in marriage simply by the act of rape.
R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day
may be acquired in marriage by coitionand if her deceased husband’s
brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. (Sanh. 55b)
A girl who is three years of age and one day may be betrothed by
cohabitation. . . .(Yeb. 57b)
A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by
coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabited with her she
becomes his. (Sanh. 69a, 69b, also discussed in Yeb. 60b)
It was taught: R. Simeon b. Yohai stated: A proselyte who is under the
age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest, for it is
said, But all the women children that have not known man by lying with
him, keep alive for yourselves, and Phineas (who was priest, the footnote
says) surely was with them. (Yeb. 60b)
[The Talmud says such three year and a day old girls are] . . . fit for
cohabitation. . . But all women children, that have not known man by
lying with him, it must be concluded that Scripture speaks of one who is
fit for cohabitation. (Footnote to Yeb. 60b)
The example of Phineas, a priest, himself marrying an underage virgin of
three years is considered by the Talmud as proof that such infants are “fit
for cohabitation.”
13 June, 2009 at 9:01 pm
And, your point is what?
The Talmud (which I agree is a bunch of BS) was written AFTER Jesus was born.
But, be that as it may, if Mary were to have been able to become pregnant, then she would have had to have hit her menstruation cycle – which normally occurs around 13 years of age. I know you Muzzie apologists want to believe that girls started menstruating REALLY early back in Muhammad’s day, but the historical record actually shows that girls back then started menstruating a little later than they do currently, primarily (it is thought) due to better nutritional diets in modern times.
So, Mary couldn’t have been 3 years and a day.
But, again, the custom at the time of Jesus’ birth was to betroth the Jewish girls at at least 12 years of age.
Also, you might want to use a dictionary or something to find out what “coition” means.
Obviously, Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant with Jesus. So, your citations prove nothing…
13 June, 2009 at 9:07 pm
I wrote three yo and a day just to show that there’s possibility that she was younger than 12 yo.
and as u said that God no need to have physical sex to make the girl pregnant, should HE wait until the girl have her menstruation, or not ?
13 June, 2009 at 9:19 pm
None of this matters, Christians do not use God, Jesus or the Holy Ghost to justify child rape today, muslims still do. Mohammed was a sick freak and his modern followers are too. No one that really respects women, children and each other will find tolerance in the koran.
If you want us westerners to know a moderate form of islam then go out and start one. We have eyes and can see real islam everyday. We never lack for a story of a muslim acting stupid they are legion. Your words are bullshit and you will never convince anyone differently without real change.
Until we see muslim stop acting like animals admit mohammed was a scum sucking pervert and none of his examples are valid for modern man you are just wasting your time here. Change islam and then return, good luck.
13 June, 2009 at 9:29 pm
ha ha, now you show me your real shape.
thanks anyway
13 June, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Could of, would of, should of…
She could have been 100 years old, too.
Like I said, the New Testament NEVER says how old she was. If she had been extremely young or extremely old, it’s a pretty good bet that the Gospel writers would have mentioned the remarkableness of her age.
The only mention of her age that I am aware of is in the apocryphal book, The Protevangelium Jacobi (James). It states that she was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. But, since The Protevangelium Jacobi was written somewhere between 200 and 300 years after the birth of Christ and is most certainly NOT an authentic Gospel, it is still anyone’s guess.
13 June, 2009 at 8:42 pm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_old_were_Joseph_and_Mary
According to tradition, Mary was probably around 12(TWELVE) or 14. Joseph was 90(Ninety) years or more older. The New Testament itself has no specific details on this although Mary would have been relatively young. This means Mary has the possibility of giving birth to
Jesus as low as 11 years of age.
===========================
more complete :
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm
===========================
Bismillah ir-Rahmaan ir-Raheem
How old was the age of Mary, Jesus’ Mother when she got pregnant?
Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society. The case of Mary the mother of Jesus comes to mind, in non biblical sources she was between 11-14 years old when she conceived Jesus.
Mary had already been “BETROTHED” to Joseph before conceiving Jesus. Joseph was a much older man. Therefore Mary was younger 11-14 years of age when she was “BETHROED” to Joseph.
We Muslims would never call Joseph a Child Molester, nor would we refer to the “Holy Ghost” of the Bible, that “Impregnated” Mary as a “Rapist” or “Adulterer”.
According to the Priest of Saint Mary’s Catholic Church: “Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary’s Husband is believed to be around 36 years.
Mary was only 13 years when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old.”
According to the “Oxford Dictionary Bible” commentary, Mary was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.
So if I want to be as silly and ridiculous as many of the Christians, I would respond to them by saying that Mary was psychologically and emotionally devastated for getting pregnant at a very young age. And speaking of “child molesting”, since most Christians believe that Jesus is the Creator of this universe, then why did GOD allow himself to enter life through a 12-year old young girl’s vagina?
Please note that we Muslims love and respect Allah Almighty, Mary, Jesus and Allah’s Messengers and prophets to the People of the Book (The Jews and Christians).
In other words, we Muslims would never make fun of Christianity through such childish topic like this one as many ridiculous Christians do make fun of Islam through our Prophet’s Muhammad (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (peace be upon her) .
13 June, 2009 at 9:19 pm
“When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old.””
That is complete nonsense. On what do you base such a claim?
13 June, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Wrong umar
Muslims make fun of Christians and Christianity.
Deedat did…
The nutter at answering christianity does…
All it does is demonstrate that niether you nor muhammad have a clear idea about Christ.
Instead you’ll use any excuse for your attacks…
Allah is not God.
Islam has nothing to do with Jesus as a Jew or Mary his mom.
Your simply spreading more worthless propaganda here.
20 June, 2009 at 9:53 pm
dears !
I would only say few thing about islam, i dont know if those are wrong you decide it..
Islam is an arabic word which is taken from salam and that means peace….
so if islam means peace then i dont know that what will be the issue to accept islam as religion.
as my friend said that “Allah is not God” then can he tell as that who is God and who Allah?
i bit you guys this guy knows nothing about Islam or any other religion…. that is funny for me ..
Christians beleave that “jesus is the son of God” i will accept it for aminute but i have question>>
why God did NOT gave brith to another son or daughter??
and if “jesus id the son of God” which only christians beleaves NOR an other religion then why the christains are not following their own religion properly?….
there is only one Allah be we the humans(creatures) choosed defrent names for him like “Allah, God, Khuda and more but as i know there is not any other God or Allah he is the same that his made this word and create as ….
20 June, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Islam is an arabic word which is taken from salam and that means peace….
See? You don’t even know how to speak Arabic. Islam does NOT mean peace and is NOT taken from the Arabic word salam.
Many words can be derived from the same root, but they don’t necessarily have to have any similarity in their meaning.
The word Islam derives from the Arabic triconsonantal root sīn-lām-mīm (SLM [ س ل م ]).
Many different words are created from this root word by inserting different vowels between the three root consonants. Many English speakers wrongly assume that if two Arabic words share the same root word then their meanings are related when in reality the fact that some words share the same root word does not imply a relationship between the meanings of the words. For instance, all of these words are derived from the root S-L-M:
Islam اسلام Submission
Salam سلام Well-being/Peace
(Derivation of) Salama سلما The stinging of a snake or the tanning of the leather
Saleema سليما To be saved or to escape from danger (when refering to a female)
Saleem سليم To be saved or to escape from danger (when refering to a male)
Aslam اسلم To submit
Istaslama استسلاما To surrender
Musal مسل Undisputed
Tasleem تسليم To receive a salutation or becoming submitted
Hence, if the word Islam has something to do with the word Salam i.e. ‘Peace’, does that also mean that it must be related to the ‘stinging of the snake’ or ‘tanning the leather’?
But, hey, don’t take my word for it. Here’s a note from some educated Muslims:
http://www.msawest.net/islam/notislam/misconceptions.html#HEADING1
“as my friend said that “Allah is not God” then can he tell as that who is God and who Allah?”
Ye shall know them by their fruits…
“i bit you guys this guy knows nothing about Islam or any other religion…. that is funny for me ..”
Wrong again. I’ve got my Bible and my Qur’an sitting right here in front of me. To the left of that, I have several volumes from the History of al-Tabari as well as the Sirat Rasoul Allah written by ibn Ishaq.
I’m what you might call, “one of them thar’ religious scholars.”
“Christians beleave that “jesus is the son of God” i will accept it for aminute but i have question>>
why God did NOT gave brith to another son or daughter??”
Simple question, simple answer: Because Jesus already did all the work that was required. Now, answer me this: Why would God need another son or daughter if His “only begotten Son” had already fulfilled prophesy and the New Covenant?
But, besides that, your question is just silly. If a parent has only one child and decides not to have another, how does that negate the validity of the parent or the child? It doesn’t. So, once again, your question is just silly because it is logically flawed.
“and if “jesus id the son of God” which only christians beleaves NOR an other religion then why the christains are not following their own religion properly?….”
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
By the way, that was Jesus speaking. Notice that He called God, “My Father.”
It’s not that the Christians have somehow misunderstood the Scriptures, but that Jesus declared Himself the Son of God on numerous occasions. Luke 22:70 comes immediately to mind:
— They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You are right in saying I am.”
Also, I find it interesting that the Qur’an, calls Jesus “The Messiah” on several occasions. Why? Because the Messiah IS the Son of God according to Jewish tradition and understanding at the time Christ was born. So, it makes no sense to call Jesus “The Messiah” if one does not believe Him to be the Son of God. That would be like calling a donkey a “burro,” and then trying to say that a “burro” is not a donkey. It’s just that stupid.
“there is only one Allah be we the humans(creatures) choosed defrent names for him like “Allah, God, Khuda and more but as i know there is not any other God or Allah he is the same that his made this word and create as ….”
Of course God goes by different names in different languages and cultures. But, if it is truly the same God, then it would have the same, exact attributes in all cultures and languages. This is just simply not the case. One big difference is that Jewish and Christian Scripture says that God cannot be tempted by evil and neither tempts anyone with evil; evil being understood as referring to immorality and sin. James 1:13 (c.f. Psalm 5:4-5; Habakkuk 1:13. Yet, the Qur’an teaches that Allah is the author of evil:
Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan
And (the unbelievers) schemed and planned, and Allah schemed also, and the best of schemers is Allah. S. 3:54
Are they then secure from Allah’s scheme (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah’s scheme (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99 Pickthall
Remember how the unbelievers schemed against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or to slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They scheme and plot, but the best of schemers is Allah. S. 8:30
And when We make people taste of mercy after an affliction touches them, lo! they devise schemes (makrun) against Our communication. Say: Allah is quicker to scheme (makran); surely Our apostles write down what you plan. S. 10:21
And those before them did indeed scheme (makara), but all scheming (al-makru) is Allah’s; He knows what every soul earns, and the unbelievers shall come to know for whom is the (better) issue of the abode. S. 13:42
So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme, while they perceived not. S. 27:50
The term for scheme in Arabic is makara which denotes one who is a deceiver, one who is conniving, a schemer. It is always used in a negative sense. Allah is thus seen as the best of deceivers, the premiere schemer and conniving one.
This is not simply a Christian perspective but one thoroughly endorsed by Muslim theologians as well.
There are many, many more differences, but to thoroughly delve into them would require more time and space than this limited comment format provides.
Cheers
20 June, 2009 at 11:33 pm
naizi
Depending on which islamic website you visit islam means SUBMISSION. Many islamic apolgetics try to make it sound like peace. But for 1400 years the SYSTEM of islam has not been peaceful.
Yes I know a differnece between God and allah. God as I know him cares for his creation. allah is unknowable, undescribeable and doesnt care about us.
allah was the god of the Arabian peoples BEFORE muhammads birth.
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Allah.html
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Allah%20There%20is%20no%20god%20but%20he.html
I have study many local ‘religions’ and I know the differences to each of them. This includes Islam.
You foolishly claim that God can give birth what are you a wiccan? Silly boy.
Christians follow the teachings of Christ quite well. Are you following allah and muhammads teachings? Probably not.
If you take the time to study each religion properly… Christians believe in a different God than allah, budhists worship buddah, wiccans worship the goddess, and the list if religions goes on and on.
You really shoulds reconsider your propaganda that has been used before trying to piece all religions into believing the same ilah.