Obama’s Iran Dilemma and the death of mecca

A good analysis of some of the issues facing obama but a short sighted one. Mr. Crooke seems to believe this is all about regional power and I take a different view. While Iran built its military power to threaten Iraq and Saudi Arabia, now I take them at their word that Israel is their target. Notice I said target and not enemy. Israel is not strong enough to fight Iran. The distances are too great and their military supply lines could not support a war. Iran is capable of threatening Israel but for the same reasons it cannot fight them force on force. One simple nuke would give Iran a victory. It would cement Iran’s ruling clerics as heroes of islam and prove to the world and more importantly the Saudis that Iran is now a superpower. When the mythical mahdi fails to materialize the clerics will use his absence to recruit even more young muslim men to die. This time the wantabee jihadi will be told the mahdi will not show until Iran controls mecca. Where iran is concerned Israel is the target but Saudi Arabia is the enemy.

30 Sep 09, NOLA 38

Subhed: The Real Issue Is Iran’s Emergence as a Regional Power, Not Its Nuclear Threat

Alastair Crooke, the legendary former British intelligence (MI6) agent, is author of “Resistance: The Essence of the Islamist Revolution.”

BEIRUT — It was pure drama: The leaders of the United States, Britain and France stepped onto the stage at the Pittsburgh G20 meeting last week to unveil Western intelligence that showed Iran had a second nuclear fuel enrichment facility under construction, which Iran had declared to the International Atomic Energy Agency the preceding Monday.

The Western leaders gathered in Pittsburgh implied that their revelation was devastating for Iran as a credible player. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates subsequently pronounced Iran to be “boxed in” and “in a very bad spot now.” But anyone who listened to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s interview with a Time magazine correspondent on the day of the presentation, and to subsequent Iranian statements, will be clear that Iran, at least, does not see itself as boxed in.
-Ackmynadsareinajar is just the shiny object used to distract the US all of its intelligence analysts and the losers in the UN, EU and most importantly the islamic nations. The clerics in iran call the shots and they do not want Israel, they want to be the voice of islam. Shia islam is out for blood-muslim blood.

Far from it, Ahmadinejad exuded confidence and simply — and non-aggressively — counselled U.S. President Barack Obama not to go down this route. It might seem counterintuitive to most Americans and Europeans, but Ahmadinejad’s advice might be worth pondering.

The Pittsburgh dramatics, in a sense, signal the culmination of three pivotal events that took place in the Middle East some 20 years ago. The first was the implosion of the Soviet Union in 1989, the second was the 1991 Gulf War, and the third was Yitzak Rabin’s victory in the 1992 Israeli elections. The consequences from these momentous events are coming to a head for President Obama now. His course of action may determine whether this region is about to enter a new phase of bitter conflict; or enter a new era of strategic change.
-What about the hostage crisis and both attacks on the world trade center? That also changed the strategic picture. It was proof that both Sunni and Shia muslims felt powerful enough to attack America.

The first two events hobbled Iran’s traditional foes on its frontiers. Neither the imploded USSR, nor Sunni Iraq, at war with a Western coalition led by the U.S., was in a position any longer to contain an emergent Iran. As a consequence, Iran’s place as a pre-eminent — if not the pre-eminent — power in the Middle East was guaranteed.
-Our ignoring their attacks on our own military might have helped convince them that we were to weak and cowardly to face them.

The third event, the arrival of a Labor government in Israel, was pivotal to Iran becoming “the nuclear threat.” In a dramatic change of policy in 2002, Israel abandoned the Ben-Gurion doctrine of allying Israel with the regional periphery (Turkey, Ethiopia and Iran), an Israeli policy that persisted beyond the Iranian Revolution, and began to engage with its Arab “vicinity.”

To manage such a radical shift of talking peace to the former Arab “enemy,” a U-turn that bitterly split the Israeli electorate and alienated Israel’s supporters in the U.S., the Labor government in Israel began, from 1993 onward, to identify Iran to its supporters in the U.S. as the new existential “threat” — in place of the former threat of the “never-changing Arab inability to reconcile” with Israel. Subsequently, the West would absorb the Iranian “threat” as its own, for very different reasons.

The significance of this for President Obama is that he is not facing just the issue of Iran’s nuclear program. This program is rolled into a more substantive and sensitive issue. The more substantive issue, the one at the heart of the Iranian approach to negotiations, is whether — nuclear weapons issue apart — Israel and the U.S. are able to come to terms with an Iran that is, and will be, a pre-eminent power in the region.
-This goes well past the region; this is a more to establish a new caliphate. Iran has a global vision. What they really want is a shia caliph.

At present, these two issues have been conflated. Iran has signalled on various occasions that the nuclear issue could be resolved but first wants to know the answer to the wider issue: Can the U.S. bring Israel to accept Iran as a principal regional power? Can the U.S. itself accept such an outcome?

All here in the region understand the significance of this question: It is not just the nuclear weapon possibility that concerns Israel; it is the fact of Iranian conventional military power, too. Already it is the conventional military power of Iran and its allies that is circumscribing Israeli conventional military freedom of action in the region. A few Israelis are ready to acknowledge this. What we are dealing with here is whether Israel and, by extension, America, can accept that Israel will no longer enjoy its hitherto absolute conventional military dominance in the region.
-The Israelis do not dominate the region, Saudi Arabia does. The protectors of the two holy sites will soon me evicted. That battle will cause muslims to attack each other all across the world, we are witnessing the death of islam. As the sunni-shia battle rages, a weaken islamic populace will eradicate each other.

This is, at bottom, the choice facing Obama: He can pursue a real solution — one that will have to acknowledge painful new realities and accept new forces arising in the region that inevitably will shift strategic balances. Or he can continue to try to contain them and risk a polarized and unstable Middle East.

The United States is slowly reducing its options through the Pittsburgh elevation of the nuclear file to an “ultimatum” choice. Perhaps President Obama believes that in this way he will relieve pressure from Israel for unilateral military action? Perhaps he sees a powerful, conventionally equipped Iran as a threat to Arab allies?

To insist that Iran abandons altogether the nuclear fuel cycle is now probably unrealistic. Iran already has it. To set as an objective that Iran must never acquire the technology that would allow a “breakout” capability (that is, that Iran would be not able speedily to move to weapons capacity at some future point in time) is also unrealistic. Breakout capability goes with the territory: Japan has a peaceful nuclear program, but implicitly it also has “break-out” capability. But to bomb is even less a solution.
-Iran will only build one, the first test will be a lob shot straight at Israel.

It seems then we are heading to increasing sanctions on Iran, but these, too, are likely to be ineffective, as most specialists already admit — Russian President Dmitry Medvedev’s initial positive words to Obama on sanctions, notwithstanding. But such a policy will again polarize the region, split it, increase the tensions, and contribute to further isolating America and Europe in the Muslim world.

Despite the rhetorical stance of some Arab governments, the Arab and Muslim street — and a number of states faced with Western escalation against Iran — is more likely to perceive the conflict as one in which the West is seeking to weaken a Muslim rival in order to maintain Israel’s military hegemony. Sentiment will turn against the West and Israel.

In short, the U.S. will again be boxed into an ineffective and unpopular policy. Already, the non-aligned majority and most Muslim states support Iranian rights under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. For the U.S. to elevate the nuclear issue to an ultimatum, while ignoring the new strategic reality of a powerful Iran, is, as Ahmadinejad hinted, a course of action that Obama in time to come may regret. The Pittsburgh theatrics may prove to have been shortsighted.
-The reality of this is simple, America has abandoned Isreal. Obama is willing to let isreal fall because he is stupid enough to think iran will only attack one target. Even with all our forces in Iraq, we will not be able to save Saudi from falling. Stock up on beer and peanuts you are not going to want to miss this show.

Explore posts in the same categories: Analysis, False Prophet, Iranian stupidity, Israel, know your enemy, Mahdi, Muslim on Muslim Violence

21 Comments on “Obama’s Iran Dilemma and the death of mecca”

  1. Leatherneck Says:

    Isaiah 54:17, KJV.

    “No weapon that has been formed against thee shall prosper” etc…

    Nothing against you Ronin, and I stood a post to help secure your right to believe as you wish.

    I do hope you become a Christian soon, so we can crush skulls together. Oh wait, that was not very Christian. I mean turn the other cheek forever together.

    The 12th Imam may show up after Israel blows Iran’s nuke sites, and causes Russia to come down south to fight with Iran, Hizoallah, Hamas, etc… against Israel.

    This regional war sets up Armageddon.(sp)

    • Ronin Says:

      I had a long talk with a Christian recently and he worked me through revelations and end times prophecy. Now I cannot verify all he said because I did not take the time to look any of it up but he made good points. My only counter was Christians have been convinced many times that the end times were near and the world is still here. When we discussed the fact that world leaders Christian or non-Christians have access to Christian texts. It leads to a few possibilities, among them, this really is the end times as predicted or someone is working very hard at making it appear that way. I lean toward the latter. Even ackmynadsareinajar is getting into the game. He claims he talks with the mahdi, now if that was true then the 12 imam is a fool. He could keep far better company and if acky breaky heart is the best the imam can do then he might as well stay in the well.

      I still say Israel is a target, destroyed or just attacked the goal of the shia will be met. The saudis will fall faster than an obama czar caught on tape and the minions will all go postal.

      No my friend, I do not see this as the end of man but when it comes to head busting time, I got your six.

  2. Leatherneck Says:

    I hope you are correct. I have been told they don’t have Foster’s in Heaven.

  3. az_conservative Says:

    It is certainly in Saudi Arabia’s (and any other oil exporters) interest to get Israel and/or the US to attack Iran. Iran will likely shut down the Straits of Hormuz, attack ships traversing it and drive insurance rates for oil tankers through the roof, combining to push oil proces up dramatically.

    The Saudis can then sit back and rake in $400 a barrel for oil while the key threat to their position as the dominant ME/OPEC power is removed, and Israel likely destroyed in the bargain. Any attack on Iran needs to focus on Iran’s military installations in the Straits. Don’t even bother with the nuke sites-take out their key bargaining chip, which is control of the Strait through which 40% of the world’s oil passes.

    • Ronin Says:

      The idea is sound but it will never happen, obama will not order an attack because he cannot risk it failing. He will not allow the Israelis to attack because it will prove him weak. Before he can come close to a plan, he first has to find a way to blame the entire problem on the last administration. Even iran could build a bomb faster than that man can grow a pair and make a decision.

      • az_conservative Says:

        LOL! Too true. But is Israel being encouraged by the Saudis to go it alone…and will they? Saudi has already told them they can use Saudi airspace…what else is being offered behind closed doors? I don’t trust the Saudis any more than I trust Iran.

        • Ronin Says:

          The saudis would have to allow for a forward staging base to ensure success. Years ago, I would have said no way that would happen but we live in strange times. Because they have to decide which has the better chance of success -obama or the Israelis? They may actually offer the Israelis some sort of help. At the least not interfere.

  4. Solkhar Says:

    The subject of Israel and Iran is a political one, as is the greater Israeli/Arab conflict is that of nationalism and land.

    The reality is that the increase in anti-Semiticism over the last century (remember that there has been for a milenia and more from Christians and Muslims) has been event created and not stooped in religious texts. Just as certainly, the radicalism mixed with militancy that was created from the Iranian Revolution and has changed the Muslim world on it’s head – is a wild-card and extremely dangerous.

    In the article above it says that “One simple nuke would give Iran a victory. It would cement Iran’s ruling clerics as heroes of islam and prove to the world and more importantly the Saudis that Iran is now a superpower. ”

    That comment is incorrect and fails to have an understanding of Iran, the reality in the Muslim World and knowledge about Islamics.

    It is incorrect that it would make Iran’s clerics the heroes of Islam, it would not and the other four Schools of Islamic Thought and Jurispudence would condemn them, every other Muslim nation would and it would ensure the destruction of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    As has been proven, the population is not all radical, gun-wielding maniacs as bloggers like to show. In fact most anti-Islam bloggers found some excuse to publish and post items supporting the uprisings in Iran but forgetting they that they are all still mostly conservative and faithful Muslims.

    This uprising showed moderate ideals and a desire for secular control – remembering that most Muslim countries do not have Shari’a legal systems but are in fact secular. Until that fateful revolution 30 years ago, Iranians lived a very western-styled life and had a Jewish, Zorastrian and Baha’i population that suffered bigotry like in most parts of the world, certainly not like afterwards.

    Reality tells us that the verbose, dangerous rhetoric and hard-line control over Iran’s population is simply a political dictatorship by one group over the rest but with a very disturbing radical ideology – which needs to be understood to be countered against.

    Those that run the regime, the clerics with an obvious front-man that only gives speeches for domestic consumtion (rather like Saddam Hussein did), joined into the anti-Jewish rhetoric because they wish to capture the hearts and minds of the Arab natinoalist sentiment and catch on to the now moot anti-Jewish element of the population that objected to the Jewish influences and power-base in the old-Shah’s regime. It is moot because that element is now mostly out of the picture as well.

    Iran runs a fine-line, with the crazed element in charge, but it should be pointed out that this so-called “Great Revolution” did not touch the Bazaari business group/community and it did not touch the businesses and investors in mining and imports/exports of those Iranians abroad that were willing to continue doing business. Why? Because in the end, as polito-sociologists all know, that in the end radicalism has more to do with politics than religion.

    Iran’s political leadership is very dangerous, but do not confuse it with being religious driven, it is all politics and when it is viewed as such then it can be worked on. Certainly do not forget that the Supreme Leader is a cleric, most leaders there are clerics, but they are also politicians.

    • PB-in-AL Says:

      So do you mean that the whole 12th imam business is just a politically expedient motivator, rather than a religiously held one?

      Also, you mention the issue of Arab nationalism. One thing, having gone to college with Iranians who fled the revolutions, they are Persians; they do NOT feel that they are arab in any way. It is rather like the Roman view of anyone not Roman: they were barbarians. In effect that is what, in my observation, the Iranian “nationalist” mindset views the Arabs as. Sure, that’s where Moham came from and the source of Islam’s teaching, but in their view the Persians perfected it in Shi’ite Islam.

      Thoughts?

      • Solkhar Says:

        My English is not my best skill but I am certain that I made the statement clear. I said “as is”, not a definitive only. I know Iranians very well and have visited there for work, many times over the years and have not said that they are Arab.

        Yes having clerics in ministerial positions and implementing Shari’a Courts has all the religious overtones but I believe at the national governance level it is all politics. Certainly the media and the far-right will make all sorts of noises otherwise, like below trying to quote haddiths or Qur’an as if they are themselves clerics, but in the end, it simply does not stick.

        What is not understood is the language of the conservative Muslim nations, that life is spoken often within religious contexts. Even here in Morocco were I have now chosen to retire to, we Muslims will at a minimum always say “insha’allah” if talking in future tense, and thus in politics when have you ever seen any politician who is religious ever not saying something is for God and Country.

        The real danger and risks are two. That the political radicals with all that rhetoric are not kept in check and not start believing in their own super-superiority like Saddam Hussein, whom having nothing to lose. Believe it or not, to a degree Iran is still a form of democracy and not a dictatorship. The second is not to forget that with all the reason, nationalism, anger and annimosity between most of the Muslim World and Israel – that unless the perception of bias and double-standards, kid-glove treatment etc continues – there will be no peace. Right now the discussions over Iran’s nuclear ambitions are going on, be sure the one thing that Israel is afraid of, is that Iran in the end will say “sure we will sign any accords and have checks on the condition that Israel signs the NPT and allows inspections of its facilities”.

        These are simple facts of life.

        • Leatherneck Says:

          “double-standards,”. Like when Hamas fires 3000 rockets, and Israel is the bad guy for defending it’s people? While Hamas fires rockets, and hides behind children and women; Yet, Israel has no choice but to fire on the rocket placements?

          I understand. The double-standard is very loud. I don’t know how the UN lives with it’s self. Always condeming Israel. A country fighting terrorists, and those who support them.

          • Solkhar Says:

            I am not one to deny Israel’s right to existance, that it is defending itself against willfull attack, missles, threats against destruction etc. Did not talk about that.

            But it would also be foolish to think that one side is the only villian and the other the only victim. People like to take sides and thus the details are lost. One such group automatically spouts that a word against Israel is also equated with anti-Semiticsm.

            My view is simple, terrorism is just that and must be condemned in all its format, as should brutality and injustice.

            The State of Israel is being hijacked by the far-right whom have chosen to side with radicals within the ultra-orthodox movement, thus the ocntinuation of settlement growth will continue that is unjust and that will antagonize radicals more. Also, there are those in the far right in Israel and in the US whom believe that Israel has some “exclusive first-best-friend” status with the US. The issue of a non-disclosed nuclear capacity that is not condemned, policed nor inspected is the double-standard that unless rectified will always justify doubt and suspicion on that country’s capacity to deal with the international community.


          • “My view is simple, terrorism is just that and must be condemned in all its format, as should brutality and injustice.”

            Agreed!

            Also, I would just like to add that America and her allies must stop playing games and acquiescing to radicals and do more to support and encourage moderate Muslims and Islamic nations to combat terrorism, brutality, and injustice in all its forms. It is a sad, sad state of affairs we find ourselves in because Islamic nations and moderate Muslims have been far too complacent when it comes to the extremist elements residing amongst them. Complacency denotes support because it does nothing to stop the extremist elements. None of us can be complacent when it comes to terrorism!

            Agreed?

            “The State of Israel is being hijacked by the far-right…”

            Interesting hypothesis…

            I just need a point of clarification from you for my own personal edification:

            As for myself, I have continually regarded Israel as far-right from the first moments of their inception. On that account, I honestly cannot possibly fathom how anyone or any group on the right has somehow “hijacked” Israel.

            Are you saying that Israel was never “far-right” until as of late?

            Perhaps it is merely a matter of one’s own perspective.

            As I said: Interesting hypothesis.

            Please, by all means, continue.

            Cheers

          • Solkhar Says:

            I also agree that Israel has been right-leaning from the beginning. Perhaps that is a normal reaction to being under threat. It is also interesting since a great number of famous Jews (before and once Israel has been established) have also been linked with socialism, marxism and communism.

            My remark is that the “far-right” in the last 10 years has had more influence than the more moderate or center right. Also, during that period the ultra-orthodox influence – as it hold’s often the balance of creating a coalition – has insured it gets some form of leverage.

            I am not sure if you have seen the recent BBC and other items about the changes to the rabbi placements in the military. Rabbis (militar chaplins) normally sat back at base, main camp, did not carry weapons. Recently they have been trained in weapons and are imbedded with troops, as officers they are often by default the second-in-charge. The numbers of ultra-orthodox rabbis joining has seriously outnumbered others and evidence shows that they are not just spiritually supporting the moral of troops but specefically pushing the religous-war element of slaying the evil biblical philistines.

            Though the above is surely debatable, the changes took place just before the recent Gaza War and the records of the events are hotly disputed, condemned by many countries (not only Arab) and is currently a subject of a damning investigation (along with the condemnation of Hamas acts as well).

            The other subject of evidence is the simply non-compliance and unwillingness to stop settler movements which is in the heart of the far-right and ultra-orthodox movements. No leader has been willing to say stop, illegal settlements are still being built and there is that obvious objective by the existing government to play some game that will always be to get more land as far as possible before…

            The reality is that the far-right whom are linked to ultra-orthodox Judaism have the demand within their beliefs that The West Bank, Gaza and Hebron belong to a Jewish Israel and Palestinians simply should not be there.


          • “I am not sure if you have seen the recent BBC and other items about the changes to the rabbi placements in the military.”

            No, I had not seen that. Thank you for pointing it out. I will look into it.

            “Though the above is surely debatable, the changes took place just before the recent Gaza War and the records of the events are hotly disputed, condemned by many countries (not only Arab) and is currently a subject of a damning investigation (along with the condemnation of Hamas acts as well).”

            Yes, plenty of blame to pass around amongst everyone involved.

            “The other subject of evidence is the simply non-compliance and unwillingness to stop settler movements which is in the heart of the far-right and ultra-orthodox movements. No leader has been willing to say stop, illegal settlements are still being built and there is that obvious objective by the existing government to play some game that will always be to get more land as far as possible before…”

            Yes, that is troubling—especially if groups of individuals are forced out of their homes to make way for the settlers. If the Israeli government is not adequately compensating the displaced individuals (as the U.S. government does when taking homes and land away from its U.S. citizens in order to construct highways and install infrastructures), and is merely turning a blind-eye, then that is indeed troubling.

            Unfortunately, where you and I might disagree, is on the legitimacy of Israel’s claims to the land now being settled. I am of the school of though in which land is rightfully owned by the victor of a battle between warring nations. Yes, I know, it is a cruel, barbaric way to get land, and I do not condone it—I merely recognize its historical legitimacy and significance in shaping the borders of almost every nation on the Earth.

            Because all nations recognize the legitimacy of borders shaped by war (probably because they all would feel guilted into giving back kilometers and kilometers of their own land if they ever denounced its legitimacy), I have a difficult time in understanding why Israel is suddenly the poster child for the opposition to wars shaping borders. Like I said, I don’t condone it, but the archaic motto, “to the victor goes the spoils,” has always been upheld as a legitimate, albeit barbaric, way to shape borders.

            Just as Jordan has legitimacy to the conquered land of Palestine—post 1948 war and and an Armistice agreement in 1949, if my memory serves me—I am of the persuasion that Israel has just as much right to the “disputed” land as any other country which has shaped its borders via war.

            If another country decides to attack Israel and seize newly conquered land, I have no problem in recognizing that country’s international legitimacy and right to ownership of that newly conquered land.

            When the international community decides that wars will no longer be a valid way to establish ownership of land (which I certainly hope we may do, someday), then I will have no problems condemning Israel if they attempt to grab any additional land via another war.

            Furthermore, if Israel is settling on land that was not part of the UN’s 1948 agreement or land not seized during wars with neighboring countries or land not legitimately purchased from its owners, then that is most definitely illegal and should be condemned by all.

            Having said all that, I truly believe that it doesn’t really matter what you or I may personally think about the validity or non-validity of the so-called “disputed lands.” That issue is just fodder for politicians to toy with and for folks with an axe to grind. In our mutually shared sphere of influence on the web, it is nothing more than futile rhetoric amounting to nothing more than wasted bandwidth.

            What really matters, and where you and I can make a difference, is with the human rights issues involved in Israel’s and Jordan’s conduct when they are settling the conquered lands previously designated as Palestine. There are plenty of abuses on both sides of the fence. Both nations’ violation of human rights when settling must be addressed equally and fairly without regard to one’s religion or race.

            Cheers and Salaam Alaikum

          • Solkhar Says:

            No we do not disagree, in fact I understand and agree fully that the reality of conquest and the “reality of the end-result” in the end counts. For my part, Israel should have either at the beginning said this is now Israel and it not being given back. Once the decision to take another direction, be into discussion and mention Two State Solution – the game has changed.

            The Palestinians are to a major degree their own worste enemy and an unwelcome guest/refugee nation. I keep on going back to the situation with Jordan, being welcomed and then when they spoiled that welcome instead of putting their heads down and saying, “yes your right and sorry” they instead tried a take-over. Then, in the First Gulf War, siding with Saddam because he promissed missiles at Israel – very bad bet that showed how desperate they are. Their presence in The Lebanonon is another sad story …. and so on.

            What is interesting their Doc is as you mentioned the brutality of reality if we like it or not also plays with them as much as Israel. Israel did not fully annext the West Bank, Gaza and Hebron and have allowed the Palestinian State to be a possibility and the reality is that there is a Palestinian people, Authority and now an expectation.

            The objective now is to see how these “new realities” play out and support them, mostly by trying to force the other stake-holders to do their bit and the un-welcome players to lay off.

            Ma’asalama & take care!


    • “The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: ‘Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’” (Sahih Bukhari 004.52.176 and 177)

    • Leatherneck Says:

      Every other Muslim nation? Which ones? Egypt? Jordan? Syria? Saudi? Iraq? Turkey?

      I get it. Hamas, and Hizboallh would be the only moon god worshiping POS that hoped for Israel to be destroyed.

      That’s what I have been writing for years, and everyone believes me.

      Sarc/off

  5. Chris Says:

    Iran’s ayatollahs are primarily interested in power. It is reminiscent of Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait in August, 1990, and (don’t forget) threatened to invade Saudi Arabia. Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were helpless without U.S. military power backing them up. The same kind of helplessness was revealed in November, 1979, when a small band of Muslim fundamentalists took over the Grand Mosque and held it for two weeks. It was only with the help of French Special Forces that the siege was broken.

    None of the Middle Eastern countries are a match for Israel, so Iran would be foolish to trigger a war with Israel. But by predending to be the meanest bully on the block (like Saddam Hussein 20 years ago), they can earn “respect” for the Shia ideology. Unfortunately, Islam and even the Shia traditions are at best “imports” to the great Persian culture, and the best outcome for that great nation would be to throw out the ayatollahs and their ideologies with the morning trash.

    • Solkhar Says:

      Chris, the statement “no ME country is a match for Israel” is, I believe, not correct except for the nuclear deterent factor.

      Iran is a match as and Turkey is a greater power by far.

      The issue is logistics though, neither Israel is capable of waging war against Iran and Visa Versa simply because they are not neighbours. As one expert correctly said on France 24 last night, if Iran gets the nuclear bomb the subject of conflict is now over for Israel and thus their panic. Why?

      Because if Israel fire a nuke at say Tehran, the country is damaged, but not gone. One bomb on Tel Aviv and there is no Israel.

      But back to non-nuclear conventional war capacity, the technology advantage of Israel has been diminishing and its neighbours have in most areas have been growing. Yet, having said that, only Iran and Turkey have ether comparable or advantages over Israel but distance and logistics is the factor that makes or breaks the opporutnity of waging a successful war.

      If Iran and Israel are at war (we hope not of course) and is only conventional, they will be unable to bring forces to attack each other unless other countries are involved. Missles and plane strikes are limited and Iran does have anti-air missile capacity that losses will occur. Iran may fire missiles and since land size is not equal, Israel will lose the morale and casualty battle.

      Though friendly and with western links, Turkey has still the largest standing army in the entire region by far. The Turkish Navy has grown and if for some strange and non-comprehensible reason it and Israel was at war, poor Lebanon and Syria would have to let the army walk through and it would be a land-air-sea battle that Israel would certainly lose.

      Of course, we are not talking about international factors, alliances, etc, etc.

      Just thought I would put the clarrification of the comment.


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