Muslim lies seen on this and every other blog
Muslim lies seen on this and every other blog
By Ronin, 7 Nov 09.
This started as a counter to a comment by one of our muslim visitors, I decided to use it as a teaching point instead. The commenter started with pointing out that America had helped the taliban and osama. One was true one not. America helped the forefathers of the taliban and the part about helping osama was true. We also currently help radical muslims in conflict with other radical muslims hunt down their enemy and kill them. We do this in surprisingly high numbers.
The American policy caused anything excuse is just the typical muslim oranges vs apple argument without merit. I was one of the Americans helping Afghan’s against the Evil Soviets. I am still sorry about that but I digress. At the time, the USA followed the old the enemy of my enemy is my friend school of foreign policy. We (the US) still do this all over the world, backing tyrants over those that seek freedom. Our government also backs extremist forms of government over those screaming out for democracy. As a nation we are contestant, we back both extremist individuals and methods of population control, when it fits our current political will. If America had to face a heavenly deity and face judgment our defense of our actions would also be limited to an apple vs oranges comparison and amount to “but God, we helped more people than we hurt:. I’m sure a heavenly host would see right through that excuse.
American foreign policy failures aside, reality is simple and the history of islam as recorded by and taught to muslims is clear. Islam has been a violent death cult since mohammed invented it. Nothing is mohammed’s life or in the history of islam itself was caused by American foreign policy failures. From an outsiders view a comparison of past and current actions by people of the islamic faith, I see no discernable difference. Like America, islam is consistent.
Every time anything related to islam hits the news and even a hint of scandal follows it, muslims are quick to use the opportunity to attempt damage control. We here at the blog expect to see all the common themes used: he/she was against islam/not a true “muslim”/ it was caused by America/the Jews/foreign policy/ the actual list exceeds the bandwidth of this site. Here is the easy way to tell whose fought it was when a muslim acts out. Think of it as the muslim is innocent and everyone else is to blame. The old “victim card”, is a common excuse and seen as often as my personal favorite of a muslim pointing out the non muslim parishioners of islam. Let me clear this up-anyone that profess to follow the teaching of mohammed is a muslim. Any title added to that is just window dressing. In addition, no other muslim gets to pick who is and who is not a member of their faith. I would accept arguments as to why or why not they are a good or bad muslim. Even those arguments are subjective and unless the muslim making the call has documentation from a respected islamic educational institution and authority to license other muslims as good and bad muslims it amounts to nothing more than personal opinion.
There are as many excuses for the crimes of islam as their are muslims but I wanted to pointout the most commonly seen. I should also remind everyone that passive support is still support, and judge by actions and not words when dealing with destructive cults.
7 November, 2009 at 9:32 am
There are many mistakes in this post and the first was attacking Ronin and not the message
7 November, 2009 at 10:02 am
I thought you might be attracted to that bit of berley.
7 November, 2009 at 11:42 am
The truth hurts doesn’t it?
7 November, 2009 at 11:51 am
Muslims’ fear of the truth is matched only by their use of spin and weasel words.
7 November, 2009 at 12:05 pm
I didn’t even read his counter as nothing he has said would be differant than the hundreds of other muslims that visited the site before him. Actions speak for themselves. If millions of muslims continue to reinforce negative sterotypes nothing he can say on line will help his cause or paint islam in a positive light.
7 November, 2009 at 12:25 pm
That is short and to the point.
7 November, 2009 at 10:54 am
Ronin has got islam sussed.
7 November, 2009 at 11:20 am
The religion of animals.
7 November, 2009 at 11:36 am
“Following the molestation, the Muslims proceeded to decapitate her with machetes.”
Murder, by the “holy” koran – “strike off their heads …”
“Allah” has a lot to answer for.
7 November, 2009 at 11:38 am
The early 1970s – I wonder what the infidels did to provoke allah and its followers back then?
7 November, 2009 at 11:49 am
mullah
Because they were white…
7 November, 2009 at 12:03 pm
True, but that was because of the population demographics there at the time. Had it been in Africa it would have been black Christians, in South America…well you know. Driving around the world searching for victims I wonder how many atheists they have mistaken for Christians?
7 November, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Anytime the oppressed feel ideology played a role and followers do not correct them, they prove them right. A few voices screaming “not is our name” can go along way but only if senior, respected persons give the message, anyone else is waisting time. Islams image problems starts and ends with the actions of muslim leadership and clerics not with blogs, books and speakers. When/if muslims change we will notice.
7 November, 2009 at 12:36 pm
I remember the first time I saw a muslim it was somewhere around the late 60’s or early 70’s Saudi oil sheiks that looked exactly as they do today, I believe it was the first time they had visited NY NY. In 80 I was fool enough to join up because I thought that we would either attack Iran or attack the soviets in Afghanistan which shows you how much the average American back then knew about these mysterious people.
I figured we would do one or the other and when we didn’t, well, that was enough for me. Of course I wasn’t really interested in going here or there to help these guys or those guys, my aunt and her eldest son are the do gooders in the family. The weird thing is unlike Ronin I wasn’t hanging out with them (just kidding Ronin)so I really didn’t know anything about muslims until after 9-11.
Islam and muslimss are like a giant blind spot for many Americans. Casualties of a corrupt enemy media over the last three or four decades. People in power knew, they knew and did what they did anyway. Don’t feel bad Ronin you were fooled just like the rest of us.
7 November, 2009 at 12:45 pm
I wasn’t fooled long, I still remember the flak I took for telling a Col that we were on the wrong side and we should help the soviets. Don’t get me wrong, some muslims are great people and we can work together in peace but until islam changes it will never be for long. Entire cultures have fallen to that evil cult and at one time many thought they could work things out and live together with muslims in peace. That mistake cost them everything.
7 November, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Just like me many people today we have been educated in a view of the world that is not quite true. As I got older I began to become interested in old movies. Yeah, believe it or not there are a lot of truths in old movies. Things they knew but we have been trained to forget. It doesn’t matter the movie and these little tid bits of truth sometimes come in strange places. There is a lot to learn from our ancestors and fortunately the film has not been destroyed…yet.
Actually there was a point where we were about to lose this historical record due to celluloid deterioration. Magically, new technology appeared about that time that saved them. Divine intervention or just blind luck?
Good on you Ronin, actually I wouldn’t have expected anything less from you.
7 November, 2009 at 6:39 pm
“Nothing is mohammed’s life or in the history of islam itself was caused by American foreign policy failures.”
And there it is, Ronin. Succinct and accurate.
In fact you can even substitute a few other countries.
8 November, 2009 at 10:27 am
Correct, what’s the point though?
Ronin talks about “today” and as sad and terrible it is, America is at war in Iraq and Afghanistan and wrong or perceived correct – war and politics creates hatreds and animosity – like all these posts.
7 November, 2009 at 9:48 pm
This is excellent Ronin.
When I was a child, I used to fantasise about Alla Babba and the 7 theives, riding magic carpets, and all the romantic fairy tales of the mysterious arab ways. Shirley Temple even had a movie which included a fight between the muslims and English…the name escapes me at the moment.
Then I learned the harsh realities of the cult/culture/and hatred for all things western/Christian/Jewish/woman. The great hero General Jack Pershing surely knew how to handle the terrorists.
All anyone has to do is read the qu’ran to see the horrendous evil that is within. reminds me of this death care bill being discussed at the moment and the crazy democrats that are in lala land that want this thing. one and the same. evil and anti-American
7 November, 2009 at 10:38 pm
We need an army of General Pershings today. Send half to deal with the Muslims and the other half to DC.
8 November, 2009 at 10:25 am
Guess it is just the emotions to base-oneselves into pettiness.
Thus such base-emotions turn into action and ethnic cleansing, bombings and murders and then another community will say that these people are evil demon worshippers and their faith was designed on it.
The circle continues.
8 November, 2009 at 10:56 am
TYPICAL MUSLIM PROPAGANDA
Of course, Muslims have no propensity to evil themselves, and only our resistance to it perpetuates the “cycle of violence.”
Where have I heard that before? Oh, I remember, Osama Bin Laden for one.
And, no, it’s not that “these people are evil.” Rather, it’s their demonic
“religion”cult of death that’s the problem, preying on weak minds like Hasan’s and Solkhar’s.The “cycle” is perpetuated by Muslim fanatics who, after they kill, maim, and destroy, posture as helpless victims of those attempting to defend themselves against Islam’s barbarism.
This guy, Hasan, was a typical brain-dead suicidal slave of Islam.
Oh, and did you know, Hasan was a member of the same mosque as some of the 911 terrorists?
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/199483.php
And it appears he was also on O’Blanko’s transition team.
http://www.brutallyhonest.org/brutally_honest/2009/11/hasan-worshipped-with-911-hijackers.html
Actually, I have a lot of respect for decent Muslims, who can remain so in spite of their being exposed to such an intense spiritual toxin as islam. The problem is, to find out if they are decent or not one must be in a situation where one will not survive unless they are, and that’s just not a practical test protocol.
8 November, 2009 at 11:39 am
Brutally Honest says it’s on page 32, but it appears to be on p.29
Atlas has the screenshot of the page.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/11/bush-our-proxy-president-bush-at-fort-hood-obama-at-camp-david.html
8 November, 2009 at 12:21 pm
“Muslims have no propensity to evil themselves,”
Socio-psychology 101- all of mankind has a propensity to the evils of power and control, it is only the social factors that they live in that increase or decrease it.
Any Muslim that says that Muslims are less evil is just as stupid as those non-Muslims whom say they are.
When pathetic individuals such as above start generalizing and in fact accusing other posters of inclusion in evil, it tells us a very simple thing – radicals feed of radicals and in the end the subject does not matter at all.
Frankly speaking, the poster yanoson is more than likely a candidate, if the social circumstances were correct, to be such a violent person. It is shown by the speed and rather illogical attacks already thrown.
Such radicals normally show an ignorance and a jumping to unwarrented conclussions. No doubt Maj Hassan is a mass murderer, no doubt he was a regular mosque going individual, but as yet it only “may be” that he was influence by radicals or radical teachings, or maybe he simply flew off the handle. It should not be forgotten that there have been in schools in the west, particularly in the US that have produced youth whom gunned down many, many innocents. Going on this person’s account, we can jump to the same presumptive conclussion that US schools, of which many are church-goers, like to produce mass-murders as well.
Some people are simply sad.
8 November, 2009 at 12:51 pm
PSYCHOLOGICAL PROJECTION
“Some people are simply sad.”
Yes, you are.
Attacking the messenger is only valid if he’s part of the problem, not if he is merely sounding the alarm against those who are. Solkhar wants to delegitimize us, because he doesn’t want anyone to accept the evidence we present.
(Note how he persists in accusing me of calling all Muslims evil, even though I clearly say that Islam is the root of the problem.)
And I make no “unwarranted assumptions,” about Islam. I base my accusations on established facts. We have 1300 years of proof that it is evil,
http://www.islam-watch.org/Rizwan_Salim/What-Islamic-Invaders-Did-to-India.htm
and that evil is as alive today as it was when Muckmudd the perverse invented it.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
They have no defense of their own miserable behavior, so they resort to the typical tactics of the dishonest and try to redirect anger away from the themselves and toward the targets of their perversions. “Blame the victims.” is their perennial byword.
“Given the recent worldwide attacks by Islamic terrorists, why isn’t the question “Is Islam evil?” With few exceptions (Turkey, for example), Islamic countries are fascist, autocratic or theocratic, where women are subjugated and minorities persecuted. Islamic countries are rife with poverty and have been for centuries. Polls show that in many Islamic countries a majority of Muslims lionize the man responsible for the atrocities of September 11th and the terrorist gangs who routinely slaughter civilians in Israeli buses and restaurants. In Arab schools and on Arab television, children are taught the glory of becoming suicide bombers. Almost everywhere that Islam borders other cultures, there is violence.”
http://www.liberty-and-culture.com/isislamevil.html
8 November, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Big mistake there. When you refer to history then you must open all historical facts or look the fool.
Before I start, I should point out that “shooting the messenger” was not the case, you put me in the same bracket as Major Hasan which is an accussation.
Now to get back to facts. First of all, you quoted from three biased and obvious hate-agenda websites as a source, that is an automatic failure in seriousness.
All cultures try and conquer others, and in the end, the sheer mathematical victory on the numbers of people killed claimed under the banner of one religion simply goes to Christianity.
For each and every example you chose there can be three examples of similar or greater by those of Christians. This is not Christian-bashing, as I know it is not Christianity that is to blame (like Islam) but the people who will always use the name of a religion.
The events in South America under the Conquistadors vs Heathens is in fact what tips the balance but there are many more.
The First Crusade was declared by Pope Urban II and as result, did an army leave to Jerusalem/Al Qods? No, they spent the first year killing thousands of Jews before departing.
India, before the arrival of conquering Persians and others was a place of brutal war between small kings, some Hindu and some Buddhist. It is ironic that trying to state the invasion of soldiers (and of course like all others, using religion as a method of dominating culture) that in the more present time, early this year tens of thousands of Christians were displaced and thousands killed by Hindu fanatics in Orrisa State.
Outside of history and back to the present, rediculous and obviously agenda-based texts like given by yonason needs a reality check.
Muslim countries are mostly a part of third-world nations and suffer the same level of poverty, lack of infrastructure, iliteracy and thus the corruption etc. They also each suffer differing cultural or tribal problems. No one should deny that Arab countries are sexist and descriminating against women, but not all. Three Muslim countries have had Female heads of state/government at various points.
Even in the Arab world, the tide is changing, I live in a country with four women ministers, UAE’s minister for overseas trade (a significant post) is now run by a women and even Saudi Arabia has done so – with obvious condemnation from old-guard and radicals.
But the stereotyping bullsh*t on this and other posts simply shows a false image. There are 73 Arab language music video satellite stations that would extinguish such claims of robe and burqa wearing desert dwellers with camels. Watch a conversation on western televison with Queen Rania of Jordan or go visit the upmarket centres of Amman, Cairo, Casablanca, Tunis or Beirut to get a taste of life for modern Arab women whom were fortunate enough to escape radicals and tribal-sexism. It still has very far to go, but the real image needs t obe known, not this crap.
This laughable so called facts is in reality pure and utter garbage that was written with an agenda to espouse radical hate.
You can not fight radicalism with radicalism, you need to simply create normality and expose BS from all sides to kill it off.
8 November, 2009 at 11:03 am
What some of his fellow Muslim soldiers had to say about the dead and injured…
“Fort Hood mosque member defends shootings: ‘They were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them’.”
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/i-will-not-condemn-my-muslim-brother-ft-hood-shooter-for-killing-all-those-people/
Islam is a soul destroying poison. As Winston Churchill said of it in 1899, “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!”
http://noiri.blogspot.com/2009/02/winston-churchill-on-islam.html
8 November, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Those that said it were not soldiers. There is a need to stick to facts.
If those that said it (not that I would trust the website given) were true then I would be more than happy to immediately check into their immigration and financial links to see if they are a threat.
As for Churchill, he said to Queen Elizabeth II on his personal fairwell after his last government fell that he was a great historian but did not understand “man”, mostly because he was a product of the “old Empire”.
8 November, 2009 at 1:00 pm
“Those that said it were not soldiers.”
Another redirect. They were members of his mosque – his soulmates, and proof that such attitudes are not only tolerated, but encouraged by the mosque.
That last comment he makes about Churchill is a non sequitur. The fact is that Churchill was a “great historian” and even though he may not have “understood” WHY Islam was evil, he knew that the facts of the matter prove it is.
(that was another of Solkhar’s attempts to confuse the issue in order to redirect away from the truth.)
He is a propagandist, and no better than those whose evil he defends.
7 November, 2009 at 9:51 pm
DON’T WORRY, THE PRESIDENT IS ON THE CASE…
“CAMP DAVID – President Obama and his wife, Michelle, head out for a weekend of golf, rest, and relaxation,…
…OR NOT.
Islam Sucks!
“Fort Hood mosque member defends shootings: “They were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them.””
We are going to protect Muslim innocents from Islamofascist blood thirsty killers, …AND THEY CAN’T TELL THE DIFFERENCE!? …because their “religion” can’t teach them how to tell the difference between what is really right and wrong. Get them the heck OUT of the military!
8 November, 2009 at 4:55 am
UPDATE
Perp has connection to 911 terror mosque…
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/why-am-i-not-surprised-fort-hood-muslim-mass-murderer-linked-to-911-terrorist-hijackers/
8 November, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Winston Churchill
How dreadful are the curses which Islam lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
“A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property either as a child, a wife, or a concubine must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
“No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Islam is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science -the science against which it had vainly struggled – the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
8 November, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I always liked the way their spin master would attempt to twist the words of those that caught on. It is easy to find islamic sites praising both Churchill and Thomas Jefferson as tolerant and respectful of islam. Talking out of both sides of their mouths is something westerners only expect to see in politicians. Like most cults islam is good at controlling what members see and then explain to them how they should feel about it.
8 November, 2009 at 1:25 pm
“I am not struck so much by the diversity of testimony as by the many-sidedness of truth. ”
Stanley Baldwin, 1st Earl Baldwin of Bewdley, KG, PC.
(Prime Minister 1923-1924, 1924-1929, 1935-1937)
8 November, 2009 at 1:24 pm
As for Churchill, he said to Queen Elizabeth II on his personal fairwell after his last government fell that he was a great historian (and leader) but did not understand “man”, mostly because he was a product of the “old Empire”.
I forgot to add “and leader” in the above post.
Churchill noted hisotry that he studied well enough, but his underestanding of the why and how was tainted by his “old empire” concepts that he was brought up with.
Thus, it is a waste of time giving such a quote from him on this subject, just like if you give some comment by a 16th century explorer who will show 16th century understandings.
Or to put it another way – your post is a wast of effort.
“Religious faith will be of the same significance to the 21st century as political ideology was to the 20th century. In an era of globalisation, there is nothing more important than getting people of different faiths and cultures to understand each other better and live in peace and mutual respect, and to give faith itself its proper place in the future.”
The Rt. Hon. Tony Blair, Prime Minister 1997-2007; Middle East Peace Envoy 2007-2010; President of Europe 2010-
8 November, 2009 at 1:29 pm
LOL
Tony Blair is no Winston Churchill. He would barely deserve to polish Churchill’s boots.
And, as to wasting time, If you believe in abandoning anything to far in the past, then why do you continue wasting time following Muckmudd the perverse, and his 7th century madness?
You’re such a tool.
7 November, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Of course Islam lies, cheats, steals, murders, rapes and sodomizes. It’s cultural, you know. What a charming culture. /sarc
Only pure idiots or evil people would worship such a depraved system, following Satan and his demon mohammed straight to hell.
8 November, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Only pure idiots would fall for depraved generalizations and ignorant falicies. Not to mention pushing fabrications.
8 November, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Solkhar Says:
“Only pure idiots would fall for depraved generalizations and ignorant falicies. Not to mention pushing fabrications.”
And still Muslims persist in believing all the nonsense that is contained in the koran, and that is spewed by the purveyors of said filth.
http://islamcomicbook.com/comics/english/pdfs/MBOE-HIRES.pdf
8 November, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Yonason,
What choice do muslims really have? Because the cult ideology controls everything, admitting the faults and flaws inherent in islam robs leadership of the power to control the mindless minions. Real change is impossible until a real hard look at islamic history is made and islam is compared to other more modern systems. Should the minions like the more modern systems better many would abandon islam further weakening the leaderships powerbase. The only real option available to those in change of the cult is to keep the masses angry and distracted, eliminating any possibility of change or moderation. I know the symbology of the crescent but a circle would have been a better choice.
8 November, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Which why the only hope for change will probably have to come from outside of Islam, which is in turn why their leaders desperately need to deceive us into not seeing the existential threat they pose, not only to their own people, but to the whole world.
8 November, 2009 at 1:37 pm
See this is how you and your thesis fails. You cannot distinguish between radicals and the rest.
Muslims, if not under the yoke of radicals and ultra-conservatives do fine and have simple lives like the west (and often without the violence and fear of crime like in the US).
There are, of course, mindless minions, the illiterate mass of poor whom know only what is told to them. What I do not understand is that they are from their position understandably susceptable to radical propoganda, what excuse do you lot have?
Radicalism can only be battled with normality to disprove the radical BS. Since you are taking also a radical line, then simply put you have/want to ensure that normality does not want to happen.
Which, in turn, means you support violent Muslim radicalism, to feed your own agenda.
Keeping to this pretty simple logic – your to blame, not the west, not Christianity, not Islam, just you and all the other radicals here, in Afghanistan, in corrupted mosques and evangelical churches.
8 November, 2009 at 1:50 pm
“You cannot distinguish between radicals and the rest.”
That’s because, operationally, there is no difference. The “normal” Muslim is so brain washed into not being critical of other Muslims that it never occurs to him. And if it does, j.q.mohamed goes all “normal” on them…
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/03/honor-killing-islams-gruesome-gallery.html
8 November, 2009 at 4:34 pm
This explains why they won’t tolerate other religions. Others might show Muslims the way to salvation, and we can’t have anyone figuring out that Islam is false, evil and they are damned for following it.
Islam can only stand by keeping its minions ignorant, lying to gain converts, and hiding its true nature. Oh, and the threat of death for any that choose to leave the cult.
8 November, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Only pure idiots like Solkhar would try to misdirect away from the truth. Yet he continues the same routine over, and over again.
Solkhar the master of lies, and misdirection. Just like the Father of lies.
8 November, 2009 at 1:24 pm
And, speaking of depraved fabrications, from a “palestinian,” …you know, like the shooter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7_LfghKTrk
… what was that about pure idiots again? …LOL
8 November, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Pushing fabrications? Like allah and his false prophet?
“They did not kill him (Jesus Christ), nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did”.
(“Allah”, via the false prophet Mo – Sura 4:157)
Fabrications that muslims push at their mortal peril.
8 November, 2009 at 1:28 pm
John and Paul created their Church, not the Church of Jesus.
Frankly, that you cannot cope that 1.6 billion people that is your problem.
8 November, 2009 at 1:42 pm
“And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
(Jesus Christ, the Son of God – Matthew 16:18)
1.x billion muslims and their lies and blasphemies are not my problem, and like a MacDonalds promotion, they are here “for a limited time only”.
8 November, 2009 at 1:56 pm
I am not going into the quoting game, as far as we are concerned, the question is – which version are you reading from? The King James, Mormon, JW, Goon News for Modern Man, Dutch Reformed Church??? Was it from the original Aramaic, or one of the ancient Greek translations that then turned into Latin, then into old English and then Modern English? Was it still based on the original aramaic when each good intentioned monk did his translations or was he under orders from his cleric (remember we are talking 10th century or even 17th century standards).
I do not blame you for your faith at all, I have no right to as you have no right to condemn mine, and that is why I certainly condemn you.
8 November, 2009 at 1:59 pm
“I do not blame you for your faith at all, I have no right to as you have no right to condemn mine, and that is why I certainly condemn you.”
LOL He’s spinning so fast, he’s gone to plaid.
8 November, 2009 at 1:53 pm
I would like for someone to explain why 1350 odd years was not enough time some moderate muslims to seize power from the radicals. In the history of islam no moderate sect has formed and held power for very long, theit attempt at change lead only to a violent end. The more violent sects continue to thrive and with support from political and religious leadership, moderate voices have no backing and no power to affect change. In the past islam spread quickly only because it moved faster than the warnings of its arrival. Those days are over, we no longer see a difference between political, secular and religious islam or believe islam has a moderate side-islam is simply islam. Nothing more nothing special. The entire myth of islam was built around the word of a single man of questionable character and morals. The myth of mohammed as a role model has been exposed and a few desperate propagandists are hoping to force the genie back in the bottle. If that time and effort was spent to modernize and bring islam from the seventh century into the twenty-first we would notice.
8 November, 2009 at 1:56 pm
NICE SUMMARY
8 November, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Answered above but ignored by you whom “did not bother to read it”.
So tell me why in 2009 plus years Jesus’ message is still being ignored?
8 November, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Which I should add was conveniantly cut with excuses because Ronin did not want to be shown as wrong.
So it rather looks strange that he asks a question that was answered but that he cut out.
As for “attacking Ronin”. Ronin attacked my faith, basicaly attacked me, as I am one of those faiths but some how does not want to be similarly rebuttled.
So that is good blogging, right?
8 November, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Beaten to a pulp, yet it continues to babble incoherently.
8 November, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Yes, it’s such a peaceful religion, just marred by a few radicals. Riiiight.
Go watch the videos linked to this. http://homelandsecurityus.com/?p=3196
I couldn’t watch all the way through, but you’re Muslim so maybe watching this kind of sick twisted 7th century barbarism gives you a thrill.
Now, explain it to me so I understand. Where are the so-called moderate Muslims protesting this? Condemning it? Demanding such heinous acts stop? I sure haven’t seen it. In fact, this seems to be common and accepted. What’s that I hear?
…(crickets)
Oh, it’s the sound of SILENCE!
Silence = Acceptance
This is Sharia jurisprudence.
On second thought, don’t bother explaining it. You’d just lie. al taqqiya? Is that what that is called? Permission to lie to further the cause of Islam? I don’t know why I bother with you or any Muslim. You all lie.
8 November, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Great acting job, the crickets are in your backyard? They say that the word taqiyya is the “agenda based escape clause” for right wing hate mongers. It is a way of saying, no matter what I say I will not believe you anyhow, which really makes you wonder what was the point of saying anything.
Your funny fuzzy-logic really shows. Shari’a – exists not in the majority of Muslim countries but wackos with this fuzzy-logic think it is everwhere.
Like all the other foolish attempts, no real authoritave or academic referneces, only hate-sites and agendas like http://homelandsecurityus.com/ which abuses a “closeness” to try and confuse authority with a real government ministry but belongs to just another self-styled expert hate site.
Showing horror vids about abuse and terror is just that. I wil lry and find some stuff on the Rwandan massacres but I recently read a book about the extermination of Tasmanian Aboriginals which still is the first properly recorded event of genocide. That churned my stomach. But I guess you would think that is a lie, right? Because it was British run, noone had the name Hasan or Ali in it.
Your laughable attempt at emotive, “all you Muslims are nasty and evil” is rather like an old lady I remember that would shout and harras any Germans visiting Rotterdam – you gas Jews, rape girls etc, etc. Your her. Or are you like the old man who says that all “gooks” are the same, he was in a prison-of-war camp and thinks all Asians are discustingly cruel people.
But I do not generalize or over simplify and I simply think you have gone over the emotive edge and need a rest or some “weed” to clarify things a bit. Get some sleep dear and get wel.
8 November, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I do not deny atrocities of the past. Each race, religion, creed has committed them, including my own. Native Americans are one example in my own country. They were slauughtered in many cases. However, comparing horrors that happened decades or centuries ago to horrors happening in Islamic countries TODAY is apples vs oranges. And how my people have dealth with such things is markedly different from islam. Islam has perpetuated the same barbarism for 1400 years. We have learned from and condemned our past horrific acts. We have also gone to war to stop such acts since. Of course, you probably view our interference with WWII and Hitler’s Holocaust as a bad thing, seeing that you want Jews wiped out…
Your desperation is showing, solkhar. No longer are you playing the charade of “reasonable moderate”. Now you resort to logical fallacy in the face of facts. I could show you more images of Islamic barbarism, but why bother. You are one of those deluded people who will deny proof right in front of you. It is a case of pathological denial. Give up.
As for my “all you Muslims are nasty and evil” emotive attempt, I do not seek to convince you of anything. Plus, you still haven’t explained to me where the moderate Muslims are condemning beheadings, honor killings, abuse of women and children, etc. Instead, you attack me to divert my attention. Won’t work.
Where are those moderates, Solkhar? Can you provide even ONE video or statement from a moderate cleric publicly condemning these acts? Calling for Islam to change?
It is telling that YOU don’t publicly condemn these things yourself. Perhaps you fear the same punishment the Taliban dished out to those unfortunate souls in that video, huh?
8 November, 2009 at 5:04 pm
BTW, I thought I had established that I judge people by their actions. I judge Islam by what I see Islam doing. A few incidents can easily be dismissed as a few radicals. Tens of thousands of cases, all over the world, with only one thing in common: Islam. That is not coincidental or a few radicals; that is systemic.
8 November, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Your generalizing again, your assuming I hate Jews and supported the holocaust. Since you “judge those by their actions”, I must judge you as an ignorant?
Regular and coordinated anti-semistism amongst Muslims is a new phenomena that is linked to Arab Nationalism ie, it grew up the same time as Zionism, that is a cold-hard fact that even Arabs avoid admitting to. Though Arabs are a minority in numbers within the Muslim world, they still dominate clerics and thus this Arab-nationalism has automatically spread amongst most communities. Also, and pathetically, the only unified event in the recent Muslim calender was the support for Palestinians when the State of Israel was created, only making the matter worse.
Until 120 odd years ago, there was no significant problem with Jews and further back, Jews in fact were far better treated and more content living in Muslim countries than the more troubling and dangerous lives they had with Europeans. Jews who moved to America had it probably as good as say here in North Africa.
About Moderate Muslims condemning the terrorism and attrocities, go to the Al Azhar website and you will see that the Grand Sheik (basically one of the five leading figures in the Muslim world) condemns terrorism and violence. He certainly says that honor killing is unjust, FGM is un-Islamic and even attended the Stockholm conference on domestic abuse.
You are completely wrong in that I do not publically condemn all these things, I certainly do. In particular in regards to children, I have also mentioned that I am an active member of “Touche pas à mon enfant” (http://www.tanmia.ma/article.php3?id_article=6385 that is in French only).
Your to quick on accussations.
A point that needs to be made is that Islam does not need to change, only radicalism needs to be stopped.
It is you, who has attacked me and my core faith, instead of attacking radicalism and terrorism. At least get those fact right.
A last remark, you debunk history and talk about today, but you are supporting posts and comments that try and use history as evidence but who do not bother to use those same factors to give the entire picture. The same is in fact being done by you. You do not live in the Muslim world, you obviously do not have much knowledge of it so you generalize because you watch the same MSM that you condemn in other posts as showing only what they want to, and thus you give your hard-line and condemning opinion.
Now see it from my perspective. I live in the Muslim world, I am a Muslim, I have travelled extensively to almost every country except Sudan and Somalia and I see the average lives, the good things and the great things that are never talked about or shown in the media and I here just condemnation from you lot.
Certainly I see the bad, we discuss it all the time in the national, local media and even in the cafés I see the disgust, condemnations etc. I also see the desperate efforts by governments to rid themselves of radicals whom are still winning their propoganda war with the iliterate masses.
Az-conservative, I am not hiding the fact that for the last 30 years the greatest danger, the most murderous activities and the terrorism is done by the Muslim world, I do not like others try and dismiss it or blame others, but I recognise all the factors, causes and the reality on the ground. History has a place, international politics has its place but notwithstanding any of those, in the end the people who does these are Muslims and it is the Islamic world that needs to shrug it off most of all and take responsibility in doing so.
It is also, at present, not happening, though I do see signs of it starting. What I am certain, is there will be more bloodshed, terror and destruction before it does.
8 November, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I do not watch TV. Haven’t for almost 6 years. I do not visit any of the alphabet network sites, either. I read a wide variety of news, research papers, technical analyses, etc. on many different sites on the web.
“…for the last 30 years the greatest danger, the most murderous activities and the terrorism is done by the Muslim world…History has a place, international politics has its place but notwithstanding any of those, in the end the people who does these are Muslims and it is the Islamic world that needs to shrug it off most of all and take responsibility in doing so.”
Now that I can agree with. If it happens, I will rejoice. Until then, I view Islam as the greatest threat to peace in our time.
9 November, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I WONDER IF HE’S REFERRING TO…
… the Islamist Hizb al-Adla wa al-Tanmia (Justice and Development Party—PJD), which is just another of the many reincarnations of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Thanks, Solkar, for Identifying your affiliation.
8 November, 2009 at 1:44 pm
MORE DEPRAVED FABRICATIONS
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part8.html
from the ideological and physical Islamofascist kinsmen of Nidal Malik Hasan
8 November, 2009 at 1:53 pm
More from other sources…
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/06/the-massacre-at-fort-hood-and-muslim-soldiers-with-attitude/
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/08/why-do-we-have-to-read-british-papers-to-get-ft-hood-jihadist-news/
8 November, 2009 at 2:03 pm
LMAO, so far every post given by you has been from a blatantly biased agenda site and not from one credible academic or official site.
That realy explains it all or as Bill Engvall says …..”there’s your sign!”
8 November, 2009 at 2:33 pm
And Solkhar’s “solid” references are . . . . ? (Don’t hold your breath waiting)
If you aren’t smart enough to determine what’s truth and what isn’t, you might be a victim of inbreeding.
I give solid proof, and Solkhar keeps spinning web after web of lies.
More truth than a sane and honest person can ignore.
http://www.israel-wat.com/video_eng.htm
http://arabterrorism.tripod.com/
Photo documentation of the most inhumane treatment, all in the name of Islam.
http://masada2000.org/3steps.html
8 November, 2009 at 2:43 pm
NOTE – Solkhar persists in attacking the messenger, indicating the profound weakness of his(?) defensive position.
Don’t get me wrong, a messenger who is lying (as is Solkhar) can be attacked, but only after establishing (as we have) that he is indeed lying.
Merely accusing others of lying, without clear proofs, is a popular technique among the truth-challenged Islamists.
And bias against evil is NOT a fault, but a strength, as long as it is founded in truth.
8 November, 2009 at 2:56 pm
LMAO, more “dependable website references”.
I do not need references, I have basica history as my reference. Remember history, academia? Libraries?
As for lying, so far you have only given BS, from proven BS sites by known radicals and thus you have established nothing but constantly accussed, which incidently has taken you out of the “messenger” category.
Identify a lie and prove it, as you ludicrously have claimed you have done.
8 November, 2009 at 2:59 pm
“I do not need references, I have basica history as my reference. Remember history, academia? Libraries?”
I know them quite well. A lot better than you, apparently.
Solkhar don’t need no stinken references.
LOL. You sad pathetic little worm.
8 November, 2009 at 3:00 pm
8 November, 2009 at 3:08 pm
No substance and juvinile rants with no backups. Guess he/she just cannot hack it.
History and evidence is on my side and you simply are not willing to go there.
8 November, 2009 at 2:09 pm
“So tell me why in 2009 plus years Jesus’ message is still being ignored?”
Because He prophesied, among other things, that a great falling away (apostasy) would come as a precursor to the revealing of the man of sin (Antichrist), and that false christs and false prophets would appear and deceive many.
You not only ignore His message, you mock and blaspheme against Him, denying that He is the Son of God, and that He was crucified.
In ignoring His message, Solkhar, you actually fulfil His prophecies. Follow a false god and his false prophet at your peril. Better for you if you stop ignoring Jesus’ message of salvation and eternal life and accept it, rather than mocking and blaspheming, & dobbing in evangelists and having them deported in order to drown out His message in a doomed muslim land.
8 November, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I’m beginning to wonder if Mohammed was the antichrist.
8 November, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I am no expert but no, he was not, he was an Anti Christ but not the Anti Christ. The way I understand the concept of the Anti Christ anyone that condemns, counters and refuses to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ or accepts him as Lord and Savior is an Anti Christ. By giving himself the title of final prophet mohammed was guilty of blasphemy and by building a personality based cult centered on himself he also earned the title of Anti Christ. The bigger and final Anti Christ cannot arrive on earth until all the signs are present. So far, several are missing. If I have anything wrong, the members more studied on Christian doctrine can help me out.
8 November, 2009 at 4:46 pm
No, your obviously not an expert.
Your also basing assumptions that Christianity as in the Christian establishment is correct.
Jews will disagree with you completely and call Jesus and Mohammed false prophets.
So the only thing that you have correct is that those Jews and Christians will consider Mohammed a blasphemer as muc has Jews will also call Jesus one.
The fact that your making something about it is rather like the radical Muslims who are also making a thing about it. They use guns and bombs, you use the poison of words.
(waiting for the resident prosthelitizer to tell us that the “signs are there”.)
8 November, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Were the signs present in 610 AD, I wonder? From what I remember of Revelations, the signs are a bit ambiguous.
Solkhar, I am not speaking to you, and I asking a genuine question of those more learned in Christianity than I, so STFU.
8 November, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Then make it clear it is to specific people, it is really that simple, so to use your vulgarity, GFY.
8 November, 2009 at 8:26 pm
No, anti-Christian and blasphemous, but just a very successful false prophet, deceiving many.
Antichrist (Beast whose number is 666) won’t be revealed until after Jesus Christ returns for the church (1 Thessalonians 4:13 –>) and
(2 Thessalonians 2 —>)
Mo never claimed to be God, AFAIK, and was just a false prophet. Antichrist goes much further, and claims to be God:
“Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”
8 November, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Ah, I understand. Thank you Mullah
8 November, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Face it. Islam and it’s Islamofascist purveyors are evil, as we see from their own words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QjHHyUCf_k&eurl=http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/
And Solkhar complains about our “bias?”
Nope, no racism to see here.
http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/salafi-imam-we-must-believe-arabs-are-master-race/
Move along, move along.
8 November, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Ha, ha, ha, so in the end the entire justification that this poster has is based on one radical groups wank shown on you-tube.
We know radicals exist, shall I show a KKK item and claim it is the Christian world? Because they believe Christ is on their side.
So there we have it, the great proof and example that this poster considers a generalised global truth. Sheeeesh, some people have no life.
8 November, 2009 at 3:17 pm
The KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat party, but what’s a little warping of history to such a self-styled expert as yourself, eh?
And, if that guy in the video were the only one, you would be right. But he’s not. All too many are like that, and Muslims make no effort to clean house, which tells you a lot about how brainwashed they are.
I notice you haven’t commented on the link I gave to those “few” representatives of your “peaceful” religion who are the paleostinian “brothers” of the FtHood shooter. Here’s the main website that documents their total commitment to death and destruction.
http://www.palwatch.org/
I have other things to do, but I invite anyone to look at what I’ve presented, and contrast that with the nonsense Sarkhar spews. Sarkhar will lose, because he’s not just wrong, he’s deliberately attempting to deceive.
8 November, 2009 at 4:17 pm
His deception and the techniques used are as part of islam as he is. I have meet hundreds like him over the years. None of them has ever shown me a moderate form of islam or even a well known moderate muslim spokesman with any significant following. It is far easier for a true believer to argue with infidels and much safer than attempting to change the minds of fellow cult members. Most muslim outrage stems from the inability to deceive everyone. The few seeing through the smoke and mirrors are always condemned as agenda driven, unknowledgeable, racist or radicals. There is no way to explain a dangerous ideology when the first member was such a shining example of intolerance and supported barbaric practices with action, word and deed. The best hope they have is attempting to convince modern man that a few have changed and by working together, there is hope. There is no evidence such an idea would work. As long as the elite of the islamic world support terrorism the agenda of the cult is as obvious as the excuses used to defend it.
8 November, 2009 at 4:27 pm
meaningless rant erased.
8 November, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Ronin – 8 November, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Yes, that’s what I’ve found.
I’ve been following them from a year before 9/11. What I saw was that, with only a couple of minor exceptions, they all either had violent jihad material on their websites, or links to where you could find it. It was never more than 2 links away. Then, after 9/11 they removed the evidence, and rewrote that jihad had nothing to do with actual violence, if they talked about it at all. So, needless to say, I don’t trust any of their spokesdemons.
And I’ve never seen any Muslim criticize them in any way other than “that’s not productive,” meaning that it wasn’t helping the cause to reveal what they were really up to.
So, yeah, I haven’t found anything you’ve said that I can disagree with. I wish I could.
I have no doubt that in the end Islam will be defeated, but by taking so long, the West is going to be irreparably damaged as well.
8 November, 2009 at 5:38 pm
I had some hard facts to point out but if the posts are going to be cut by Ronin then what is the point of the blog?
8 November, 2009 at 4:20 pm
still quoting questionable agenda sites – bad habit there.
As for palestinians – they are there own worst enemy and if they took the non-political radical line they probably would have their state right now.
You love to put words into things that I or noone esle have said. I remind you that it was you in your post who put me and Major Hasan in the same breath.
I certainly have pointed out, agreed and condemned all those political-extremist groups out there and have constantly pointed out that stupid and ignorant agenda Islam-bashing is only distracting from the real battle against these very real dangers.
You so far have presented only “you-tube” and other agenda based waffle. You have even tried to pull a radical-right BS story about the KKK to somehow prove your self-importance.
8 November, 2009 at 7:29 pm
I know you dislike my eliminating some of your posts just like I know you realize that I could have erased them all. So far, I have not even considered that. I dislike your accusations as to my having an agenda and frankly find your arguments to defend islam, common, routine and quite boring. Having read similar posts for years, none of your answers surprises me. This blog is not about you or your hurt feelings, get over your self.
I will explain myself and my actions, although I hardly owe you an explanation. I dislike islam, I consider it a blood cult bent on violence and world domination. That said, I generally like individual muslims. I have fed, trained, protected and befriended many, the few I watched die in the dust did not cloud me to the existence of individuals that just wanted to live without fear. I blame the system and not the individual although some individuals are using the system to spread islamic supremacy. Funny when the vast majority of islamic states are utter failures.
Obviously your opinion of islam differs from mine, good on you but this site is not about islam. This site is designed to inform the readership of threats to the American way of life and its values. I see islam as only one such threat. Your insistence that I and many of the readership misunderstand your cult is just noise, frankly your opinion is just one of over a billion people that bought into the islam myth. You have no authority to speak for muslims nor the authority to make future policy. The posts I erased violated our site rules, you were treated the same as countless others. If you truly feel you are a poor unfortunate victim of persecution then start your own blog, have fun, good luck with it.
While you are here you will abide by the rules or get punished. Don’t like the rules? Then you are free to leave. I only post on this site so the chances of us ever crossing paths again will be limited. OTOH, you are also free to stay if you play by the rules. You get no vote on what I post and I strongly doubt we will ever see eye to eye on islam but may find common ground on other topics.
9 November, 2009 at 5:31 am
Ronin, I have sent an email and I have said simply and have done so a number of times, everyone is allowed their opinions and I have also “seen it all” when it comes to apposing views.
I certainly do without reservation apologize if my comments about your post that your authority on this site is questionable. It is, your blog.
What I simply point out each and every time is that generalized attacks on “Islam” and “all Muslims” is obviously an attack on me and thus I reply.
I know this blog is not a blog on Islam and in fact I have said it clearly a few times, I never start nor create conversations on religion at all and try to avoid it, but will answer when I am attacked or factual errors are made about my faith.
I would prefer to not have the subject raised at all because the subject of faith should, for me, be a personal one and also, it is such a sh*t issue because I live in the owrld that has so many radicals and extremists of the violent nature.
Thus, repeating what I wrote to you, I do make this commitment to not assume nor personalize my responses, which I ceertainly regret.
I rather like this blog because I have learnt a great deal, have had the most excellent discussions and view-swapping with DocBulldog and I wish to continue so.
One thing though, I humbly as, to consider the value of some of the posts here that are very much personal attacks directed at me which have been asked to be stopped by DocBulldog on other threads.
Cheers
ps, if the topic was the bad actions of “Muslims” and not “Islam” I would be very happy to point out, express and share examples of how really bad it can get. You may find them interesting and people could learn some things.
9 November, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Making nice, now. They are good at that, too. But, from Solkhar’s other idiotic and error filled nonsense, I’m not buying his posturing as victim now. It’s just another ploy he’s resorting to, because his others haven’t worked.
Someone lie to me, then acts like I’m supposed to act like it never happened. That’s the behavior of a sociopath, the personality type that Islam selects for.
We understand you better than you think we do.
9 November, 2009 at 2:26 pm
As far as I have seen yonason has yet to provide anything other than agenda-based hate and no facts other than claims to you-tube.
I am not after a debate or do I have to prove anything to you. It was in fact you who started name-calling and insulting and that can be shown by simply going back through the threads.
As for lies, prove it, becaue there are none but a lot of hot-air on your behalf.
I was advised to simply ignore hate-mongers and ingrates on this thread, I now think that advice is correct.
9 November, 2009 at 2:36 pm
deliberate deception is lying, as is your stupid accusation that all I provided was “waffle.”
As to the “radical right story about the KKK,” it was to counter your lie that it was Christians who started it. Yes, IT WAS THE TERRORIST ARM OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY. And the point wasn’t to aggrandize myself, but to display your pathetic ignorance of history, after you patted yourself on the back for having “history” and “libraries” on your side. You are the one trying to prove your self-importance, and then trying to slander my with your guilt. That’s another typical behavior of the sociopath, btw.
Thank you yet again for the opportunity to show just how despicably dishonest you are.
9 November, 2009 at 2:54 pm
LMAO!
So now we have the assumption that one book by a Professor is undeniable truths, makes it rather coming from you as good as you-tube.
Dr. Eric Foner has a great reputation and his studies and legacy has brought him into perhaps taking sides in politics. He is praised as much as he is criticised, depending on which side of the political spectrum you come from. You, obviously are from one of these sides. A major part of his thesis is based on the membership of KKK members of the Democrats in 1874 after a lengthy and violent campaign to disrupt, intimidate and kill Republicans. The KKK, was though, created around 10 years before to combat reconstruction and the values of the Confederacy. It is a very thin line to consider that it had links to Democrats, especially those in the Capitol.
I have absolutely no interst in self-importance, I simply point out BS especially when there with an agenda behind it.
And just to again clarify, the slander is all yours – starting when you personally attacked and insulted me with the first of your comments on this thread with:
“…..cult of death that’s the problem, preying on weak minds like Hasan’s and Solkhar’s.”
The rest, is self-mutilation by quoting only known hate-sites and you-tube with the only academic being Foner which is a subject of debate.
9 November, 2009 at 3:31 pm
FROM THE HALLS OF MONTEZUMA, TO THE SHORES OF TRIPOLI
“These future United States Presidents (Jefferson and Adams) questioned the (Muslim Tripolitan) ambassador as to why his government was so hostile to the new American republic even though America had done nothing to provoke any such animosity. Ambassador Adja answered them, as they reported to the Continental Congress,
…that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/hl940.cfm
Real history about real Muslims.
And no, the sites I refer to aren’t “known hate sites,” though dishonest and/or delusional idiots refer to them as such, because for them it’s easier to “attack the messenger, not the message,” because that’s all they can do.
And the problem Solkhar has with YouTube is that it shows Muslims spewing their hate filled venom, something he desperately doesn’t want you to see or believe. Again, “attack the messenger, not the message.”
KKK AND THE DEMOCRATS…
“Historian Elaine Frantz Parsons commented on the make up of the membership:
‘Lifting the Klan mask revealed a chaotic multitude of antiblack vigilante groups, disgruntled poor white farmers, wartime guerrilla bands, displaced Democratic politicians, illegal whiskey distillers, coercive moral reformers, sadists, rapists, white workmen fearful of black competition, employers trying to enforce labor discipline, common thieves, neighbors with decades-old grudges, and even a few freedmen and white Republicans who allied with Democratic whites or had criminal agendas of their own. Indeed, all they had in common, besides being overwhelmingly white, southern, and Democratic, was that they called themselves, or were called, Klansmen’.[16]“
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
They had a shared ideology, and a shared agenda, which makes them partners in crime.
It’s like saying that Muslims who kill aren’t terrorists, because they have no official membership in some known terror group. But, like Hasan, if it acts like a terrorist, it is one.
Any website that tells the truth about Islam is, for the ilk of Solkhar, a “hate site.”
9 November, 2009 at 3:33 pm
I have not checked the stats but I was wondering what religon has killed the most humans in the name of their god this year?
Anyone? Buler?
9 November, 2009 at 4:59 pm
One more comment on Solkhar’s duplicity
He says, “…if the topic was the bad actions of “Muslims” and not “Islam” I would be very happy…”
Of course, if we had, he would have just said that it wasn’t Islam that made them that way, rather that they were just sick as individuals.
But earlier I recall him saying “Socio-psychology 101- all of mankind has a propensity to the evils of power and control, it is only the social factors that they live in that increase or decrease it.”
And there is a great deal of (though not 100%) truth to that, so much so in fact that it is a wonder how he can deny that someone immersed in Islam isn’t affected by that poison, which is what I have been saying all along. It isn’t so much Muslims, as it is the spiritual toxin that is Islam that brings out the worst in them.
And I repeat. I have the greatest respect for Muslims who remain good people in spite of the death cult they had no choice about being born into.
Furthermore, if Islam were such a benefit to those who practice it, many of those who have chosen the path of murder, pillage, rape, enslaving their fellow man, theft and destruction of other’s property, would NOT have done so. I.e., as Big Scott 9 November, 2009 at 3:33 pm hinted at, if Islam were so good, why are so many Muslims so bad!
I’m done with Solkhar for now. I have far better things to waste my time on.
10 November, 2009 at 8:37 am
I believe that Islam is a threat to all of liberty and humanity. Why? Look at the Organization of Islamic Conference, the number of Islamic countries with little or no history of liberty, the greater financial and political clout it wields, and relying on a vast network of organizations and radical groups very much dedicated to impose Islam upon the entire planet with all possible means and opportunities.
They can carry on the cause of Islam for as long as they can until they finally succeed through jihad, warfare, death and destruction. Wanted a perfect example? It took the Muslims over 600 years to finally take Constantinople, the beacon of Christian civilization in the east, for Islam in 1453.
Nowadays, it’s easy for the Islamist groups to propagate to the gullible and the naive through educational outreaches, community associations, multiculturalism, and interfaith dialogue. Western women and school-age children are the easiest to be persuaded and fooled. Recently, the Democratic-Socialist Dhimmi Lord of Chicago Daley introduced Arabic language program to Chicago elementary schools. Who funded the program? Why, our “friends”, the Saudis! That reinforced my belief that Islam is 99% Arabic, the biggest monocultural religion in the planet.
Islam is anti-liberty and anti-humanity. Why should we have to get down on our knees, bend over to place our heads to the ground, and submit ourselves to a deity so far away removed from us?
Freedom is much more precious and preferable to us than that monocultural religion from Arabia.
10 November, 2009 at 9:57 am
Cool! Now lets check some of the points made here.
It took 600 years to take Constantinople, which of course was Byzantium and was “thus taken” by others at various points.
How about southern Iberia which is now a part of Spain. It took 800 years for various kingdoms and principalities to take it. What is now Spain has not yet reached that 800 years.
Now lets go the Organisation of Islmaic Conferences, not meant to be a HR organisation but a meeting point of those 56+ Muslim nations. As for liberty, most countries of the UN and other international bodies do not have a history of liberty either, thus making the entire subject rather …… pointless.
As for that organisation “relying on a vast network of organizations and radical groups very much dedicated to impose Islam” is in fact incorrect. Non radical organisation other than elements within the PA could be defined as such.
As for any of those nations being a part of “jihad, warfare, death and destruction”. That is also, very incorrect.
I find it interesting that you consider the Saudi Government an “Islamist group” and I can think of way more fundamentalist evengalical groups that have purposefully placed and targetted the gullible and the naive through educational outreaches, community associations, multiculturalism, and interfaith dialogue with billions invested into it and with goals of targetting Eestern women, school-age children, the poor and handicapped in particular. They, as you implied are the easiest to be persuaded and fooled.
Your “belief that Islam is 99% Arabic” is the most incorrect as the Arab Muslim world is in fact a minority. There are more Indonesian Muslims then any single group, Pakistan comes next, Bangladesh comes a strong third and the number of Turkic Muslims – Turkey and those former Soviet nations – are equal in number of Arab speaking nations. Arabs and Arabic is a minority – albiet that prayers are mostly done in the Arabic language similarly to how latin was for such a long time the language of prayer for Christians.
As for bending down on knees and placing the forhead as a way of prayer, a Muslim would say that is simply the best representation of the difference between man and God. As for diety – it is the same God of the Jews and Christians.
I love facts, don’t you?
10 November, 2009 at 10:23 am
“As for diety – it is the same God of the Jews and Christians.
I love facts, don’t you?”
I love facts, but you persist in blaspheming against God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit by asserting that the islamic “allah”, with no Son and crucifixion is the same.
Who are you targetting with your lies and blasphemies, and to what end?
10 November, 2009 at 10:39 am
Part of the allah / swordi “interfaith” deception:
saudi-us-relations.org/articles/2009/ioi/091104-jubeir-roundtable
[The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques launched an interfaith dialogue that involved different religions and cultures in order to use the universal values that are enshrined in all religions to promote understanding, co-existence, and peace because at the end of the day the universal values enshrined in all faiths are very similar. They have to do with compassion, with mercy, with peace. They have to do with co-existence, being honest, and taking care of the needy. The inter-faith dialogue is an attempt to try to use those universal values in order to build bridges between and among different people on our little planet rather than use religion in order to be divisive.]
How many churches in Mecca, Riyadh? How many infidels in Mecca? Interfaith dialogue in swordi arabia?
Flee from islam, Solkhar. Run for your life.
Judgement Day is coming.
10 November, 2009 at 10:41 am
Solkkar, I cannot accept your Saudi-approved politically corrected facts. I’m not easily persuaded and fooled by these Islamic propaganda you passed off as “facts”.
10 November, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I do not live in Saudi Arabia, do not appreciate nor do I respect hard-line conservatives nor theologans running the legal-system. Thus your so-called assumption falls flat.
As for being fooled by propoganda, so why should anyone believe your words as being correct? So far all I see is logic and facts telling me otherwise.
You assumed the OIC as being directly supported and supporting radical extremists when by its very nature it cannot, as it is an assembly of nations of which most are at war with them.
You used a single example of the wars between Byzantines and the Ottomans as a mark of some-failure – though in the end conquered was the city/empire. I wonder if you were aware that in fact the family of Mehmet II was directly related by marriage to the Byzantine King?
I noticed also that you avoid the fact that you argued incorrectly that Islam means Arab. To be very blatant and accurate, the only link to the faith of Islam is that Mohammed was one and the language of the Qur’an was revealed in the Arabic language. That is all. But, having said that, radicals and extremists like to purposefully confuse what is Arab tribalism and culture and tell non-Arab Muslism that it is Islam. So when you see a radical, he often imitates old-world Arab culture.
A third of the Muslim world is a part of the Arab world, the holy places are there but there is a very large 2/3rds that you have seem to have not known about or ignored.
So, wish to get back to understanding and believing?
10 November, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Solkhar, you misunderstood me. I stated that Islam is 99% Arabic. Which mean everything that is Islam originated from Arabia. The first Muslims under Mohammed were Arabian. The first leaders, teachers and proselytizers were Arabian. The first conquerors who spread Islam throughout the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe were Arabian. The first seafarers of Islam were Arabian. All which mean they had spread the language, the culture, the ideology and tribal ways of life from Arabia to all over places. As far as Indonesia. All those who were forcibly converted or submitted to Islam were non-Arabian. They were made to read the Qu’ran in the language of the Arabs rather than reading it in their own languages.
The Arabian Muslims in Spain eliminated or enslaved much of the Spanish Visigoths prior to invading France in the 8th century. Those who survived were forced to serve the Arabs and read the Qu’ran in Arabic and speak Arabic. This is proven history and the major reasons that led to the Christian Reconquest of Spain.
To this day, Muslim children born in the non-Arabic Islamic countries are still required to read the Qu’ran in Arabic and learn the history of Islam from the Arabic POV. Much of the Islamic teachings, Qu’ranic books, training, and community outreaches today are funded by Saudi money and supported by Saudi-Wahhabi circles, all Arabic.
As for the OIC, it is not a meeting body for the Islamic countries, it’s a political-economic bloc, possibly the largest in the world. Tell me why they have pushed hard for a separate human rights charter solely based on Islamic grounds? The UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights cover all countries, all religions, all peoples worldwide. But the OIC rejects the UNUDHR and established the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam. This is unprecedented and only it negates the whole foundation of human rights for all.
Lastly, as for the Islamic conquest of the Byzantine Empire, I simply pointed out that the Muslims were doggedly persistent in conquering Constantinople after so many centuries. I founded it ironically that it was the Byzantines who taught the Arabs the art of warfare before the dawn of Islam (Arabs served in the Byzantine Army as an auxiliary ally in the wars against the Persians).
You seem like an intelligent man, Solkhar. If you have a very good reason, would you walk away from Islam for good? That is, of course, your choice. Cheerio.
10 November, 2009 at 7:26 pm
OK, got your point, yes Islam started in the southern Arabian peninsular. So the history started from there.
As for your interpretations, I am not going to spend the time debunking what I see as a lot of over-simplifications, particularly about southern Iberia. All religions, including Christianity forced conversions at that time and it should be pointed out that “reconquesta” is a term no longer used in Spain as it is technically incorrect because the term was not about reconquering Christian territory but reuniting Spain which was never the case when the armies of Arabs and Berbers crossed over.
The OIC is not a trade-block as half of the members are signatories to trade agreements in existing blocks. I agree that Arabs, because of their wealth, involve themselves in sponsorships and charities and the latter is under severe scrutiny because of past links to terrorism. That is in fact my job – I am semi-retired, the tracking methods and patterns of terrorism financing for North Africa (counterfeiting of goods and fake building funds are the major risks right now).
As for attacking Byzantium, it has a great deal to do with on-going conflict, typical empirical expansion, war of culture AND RELIGION and it should not be forgotten or diminished that at various times it was also eastward expansion and conflict by the Byzantines.
The argument for human rights is for my part actually logical. The original charter is outdated and drafted by WWII victors, not reflecting the reality of all the peoples on this world. The original HR charter did not include the importance religion has to the vast majority of people on this planet as well as other factors.
Having said that, the current HR process has been hijacked for political elements by a number of nations wanting to score points. It reflects how the entire UN infrastructure is so out of sync and does not reflect this world – from the permanent members to what is its actual purpose.
As for being a smart man, that is why I am a Muslim and in the form that I follow it.
10 November, 2009 at 2:08 pm
NEXT UP FROM SOLKHAR…
…his rousing rendition of the Los Angeles telephone directory.
Is he talented, or what!?
Whether throwing meaningless factoids and invective, or hurling rocks and other projectiles, they always put on a show for the cameras.
Take Obama’s good buddy, Edward Said for instance. What a pose! Naaaw, he wouldn’t negatively influence Obama; not a chance.//SARC=OFF//
10 November, 2009 at 2:16 pm
OH, I just thought of the perfect way to spin this one…
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa296/soldierswear/Milli/?action=view¤t=get_video.flv
…the guy doing the shooting wasn’t saying “god is great,” but the others who were, didn’t get hurt. See, there’s your “poof,” uh, I mean “proof” that Islam is superior.
10 November, 2009 at 11:49 am
under the hill
Dont mind solkhar too much. He is simply giving ‘his’ version of islam and his / its beliefs in it.
Good ole solky goes around various forums like:
richard dawkings
topix
and many others to give his ‘facts’ to those who dont care.
10 November, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Are we not all simply giving your version? The prosthelitizer on this site claims what his version of Christianity is, which is perfectly fine, though he assumes he is not only correct but that you all must accept it.
If you read my posts, I tell what I believe and I only point out errors, mistakes and deliberate lies – that is all. I never preach, quote versus or tell or even ask people to accept my faith.
You will see that all the agro, personal attacks and attempts at ridiculing only makes them all look the more questionable, especially when their facts are actually not and their references are almost entirely hate-blogs.
It is easy to “gang-up” in numbers and postings to drown out, it takes a bit of quality to simply discuss, ask, listen, learn and debate.
10 November, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Solkhar
Since you live in morocco are you a follower of the Maliki Madhhab?
It seems to be the majority in Morocco.
10 November, 2009 at 5:24 pm
I’m guessing this is one of his favorite Muslim Brotherhood “leaders.”
Sheikh Abdel Karim El Hamdaoui, or perhaps the EX Dr. Farid Al-Ansari, lovely plumage the Moroccon green parrot, just nail him to a podium and broadcast lies about America and Israel, and no one will notice the difference.
10 November, 2009 at 5:30 pm
No, I am a Sinast.
Mind you, the Maliki school based in Fez is a lot more acceptable in many aspects than the other four schools of jurispudence.
The Grand Sheik or head of the Fez school, for instance, accepted for instance that it supports the rejection of Shari’a Courts in Morocco as by its very nature a correct legal system reflects the morals and standards of the people of the country.
Either way, as a Sinast I do not put “infaluability” in any of the haddiths but only in the Qur’an itself. Haddiths were, either with the best intentions or not, written by the hands of man.
10 November, 2009 at 6:28 pm
“The Grand Sheik … supports the rejection of Shari’a Courts in Morocco…”.
Yes, Old Moe pulled a lot of stunts like that, until he was powerful enough that breaking his word wouldn’t hurt him; the cornerstone of his “diplomacy” being treachery, after all.
“…as a Sinast I do not put “infaluability” in any of the haddiths but only in the Qur’an itself.”
As do all Islamists, whether the “peaceful” ones who work in the background by treachery, or those who are outright hostile, and by whose actions a populace becomes subliminally more inclined to “submit” to the seemingly more moderate. In Islam there is no compromise except to deceive.
“Haddiths were, either with the best intentions or not, written by the hands of man.”
As was the koran, giving Mohammed the benefit of the doubt.
10 November, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Now your obviously not being serious and for someone with a loathing of anything Muslim or “Islamist” you should have a better understanding.
“Islamists” and all radicals are such because they take some of those haddiths literally and have some political-pretend-religious leader willing to compromise even those haddiths.
The majority of radicals are in fact following wahhabism, salafism and variants of them, but having said that, Osama Bin Laden is amongst the worst adepts even of pure wahhabism. A real adherent would refuse to deal let alone communicate and live amongst the Taliban – of which they consider them as heretics.
Radicals and ultra-conservatives would condemn any Sinast like myself as a heretic as well, mind you any non-wahhabist is already branded one.
10 November, 2009 at 7:16 pm
After I posted that I realized I was too vague on that second comment. What I meant was that you all take the Koran literally. As to the bad blood between two Muslims who disagree on the details, well, there are over 1300 years of internecine violence to attest to that.
So, without the Sunnas and the Hadiths, how does one interpret Mohammed’s ambiguous and often self contradictory pontifications?
Oh, and for those of you who haven’t this link yet, you might want to save it.
http://www.schnellmann.org/Robert_Spencer_The_Truth_About_Muhammad.pdf
11 November, 2009 at 4:40 pm
I would not bother with wannabe scholars and hate-for-financial-profiteers like Robert Spencer.
He has three very sad and deliberate habits that are simply made to make money from people like you – as no one else will buy his books.
A) He only quotes sections of religous texts that most suit his argument and then fails in the most basic academic/reference skill of putting the entire reference and the popular view of the item. When challenged, he will argue – “I have quoted exact texts”.
B) He assumes only the radical’s point of view and ignores all others, which in fact are the majority. Thus he “implies” a great deal, such as that the Muslim world lives under Shari’a Law, though in fact he avoids pointing out that less than half of Muslim countries have Shari’a Courts and of those, the majority are Family Courts. He would also like you all to believe that every Muslim supports a Caliphate when it is rejected as a “utopian ideal of ultra-conservatives only” and mostly by radicals in the West and not the real Muslim World – Robert Spencer would never allow that to appear in his book.
and C), he gets invited to university campuses by far-right student union groups and then will put in his biography that he “spoke at that University” to give the impression that academic institutions support and respect him. They do not and his books are not text books or endorsed by academics at all.
Spencer, as a Candian academic I know says, should be allowed to continue stealing money from radical right bigots.
Personally, he should be embarrased on 24hours and 60 minutes as the hate-monger-for-profiteer that he is. His circle is getting smaller and his triange of him, Fitzgerald and Gellar are a laughing stock.
10 November, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Solkhar, 10 November, 2009 at 4:33 pm, said:
“…It takes a bit of quality…”
And as soon as the islamist troll comes up with anything even remotely resembling a “quality” statement, we might actually be able to comment on it intelligently. Till then, the only way to respond to dreck is to throw it back, or hold one’s nose and walk around it.
Also, he attempts to equate our unity with “ganging up in numbers” (which is usually how one “gangs up” on someone, LOL), with being unfair. You know, like saying that Jews are “unfair” because more of the paleostinian terrorists get killed than the Israeli women and children those beasts target.
His splitting won’t work, because real diversity means that real respect for differences isn’t a one-way street. And “ganging up” for a worthy common goal is a good thing.
10 November, 2009 at 1:49 pm
They “pray” by “…bending down on knees and placing the forhead…
…as they are doing here, showing their “respect” for the Holiest Place in the universe…
http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/1mpto2qu8knp0/1t5dm8/muslems-praying.jpg
…by waving their butts at it.
They have no love of the Temple Mount, and never did. They only want it because it’s so special to someone else. Everywhere they go, they try to steal the physical, intellectual and spiritual property of others, and what they can’t steal, they try to destroy.
But really, let’s not be TOO hard on the Sado Arabians, after all they are a “civilized” lot…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1618158.stm
…whatever.
10 November, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Solkhar
If you have time…
Would you explain your belief that Allah is the same God as the Tanakh?
10 November, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Islam is one of the THREE Abrahamic Religions.
As far as I am aware and I am not a theology student, is that the Tanakh (the Jewish Bible) is considered a closer and more accurate religious text than the Christian versions/variants in their “Old Testiment”.
Ignoring very questionable and agenda based conspiracy theories that the term Allah is something else, it simply is the Arabic word for God. The word comes from Aramaic roots.
“Illah ilallah” says no God but God and you can see it phonetically there., it does not have another word and then …ilallah. All references in the Qur’an is about the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus and all the other Prophets recognised down to Adam and Noah.
10 November, 2009 at 7:54 pm
TANAKH is the Hebrew acronym for Torah (5 books of Moses), Prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc., etc.,) and Writings (Psalms, Megillah, Book of Ruth, etc.,).
Since they came first, and all those that came after refer back to them, they are indeed the foundation for all three “Abrahamic Religions.”
While Christians (and some Jews) differ as to various aspects of translation, interpretation and application, they do NOT question the authority of that foundational material.
Islam, on the other hand, says “The Jews lied, and perverted it.” And their “proof” is that, while G-d appeared to the entire nation of Israel (roughly 6 million people) to give the Torah at Sinai, He couldn’t personally be bothered to transmit the appropriate “corrections” to the Arabs or Mohammed, so He allegedly sent an angel to inspire Mohammed while Mohammed was having epileptic siezures.
One doesn’t equal the other. Do the math.
10 November, 2009 at 8:05 pm
The message changed and also the delivery. God/Jesus personally delivered the message that vengeance is his alone and then according to islamic ideology he sent mohammed an angel to say never mind you have my permission to kill my enemies. If God failed to see the future would force him to change his mind it means nothing in the koran can be trusted. The alternative is mo made up his version of events.
10 November, 2009 at 8:15 pm
So which is it, did God fail to see the future, proving he was not perfect or all knowing or was his warning that false prophets would follow him prove that he was both right and all knowing?
10 November, 2009 at 8:14 pm
@Solkhar and friends
I used to be a lot more tolerant of Islam, until I started learning about it. When my ignorance was dispelled, however, so was my tolerance.
About 30 years ago, I did a little investigation and came up with 2 gems,…
(1) “First [kill] the Saturday People, then the Sunday People.” and…
(2) “One day the stones and trees will call to the Muslims and say, ‘There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him’.”
That was all I needed to know to realize Islam was not a repository of truth or peace.
Fast forward to the present, and what you pretend is only a “minority” of fanatics is determined to kill me, and overrun the world.
But, if it is a “minority,” why is it that you, allegedly one of the majority of “moderate” Muslims, stand by and do nothing to stop them? If they are indeed the “minority” then surely you have it in your power to put an end to such evil, if you wanted to. So why don’t you?
I’ll tell you why. Because you don’t want to. You have no problem with their behavior, and you phony “moderates” have no interest in restraining the worst of your brethren, because at heart you share their perverse worldview, and don’t feel the least bit inclined to correct what you don’t really see as being broken.
And THAT is how I know that you are, at heart, one of them.
10 November, 2009 at 8:19 pm
I believe the Christian term for moderate muslim is “Backslider”.
10 November, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Ok.
My main point is, though, that they tell us…
“Most Muslims are good.”
Meanwhile, death and destruction spreads, and yet they persist in telling us,…
“Don’t worry, most Muslims are good. See, most of us aren’t attacking you.”
But they only stand by, watching the rape of civilization, not only doing nothing to come to it’s aid, but telling it how wrong it is to fight back.
What’s not to disrespect?
11 November, 2009 at 4:16 pm
The term “Jews hiding behind trees and go and kill them” is a reference that is pushed and made important by only two groups. The first is the radical extremist Muslims who use it for their political purposes (Wahhabists for example) and secondly be western non-Muslims with an agenda to abuse Islam. The vast majority of the world, both non-Muslim and Muslim accept its real meaning as a reference to the “after-life” or “day of judgement” and is considered rhetorical, like references in the Old Testiment and other books.
So when I see someone quoting it and using it as some excuse or valididation it means they are a radical or accept only what radicals and extremists say.
10 November, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Solkhar: The argument for human rights is for my part actually logical. The original charter is outdated and drafted by WWII victors, not reflecting the reality of all the peoples on this world. The original HR charter did not include the importance religion has to the vast majority of people on this planet as well as other factors.
I don’t agree. The HR charter is not outdated and it remains as relevant as it is today. Article 18 protects all practitioners of religions, with regard to the right of freedom of thought. The CDHRI contained none of protection or respect for other religions and its practitioners beside Islam, and it specifically places Islam above all religions. The OIC knew its own charter was designated in mind to replace the UDHR as they hoped for.
Solkhar: Having said that, the current HR process has been hijacked for political elements by a number of nations wanting to score points. It reflects how the entire UN infrastructure is so out of sync and does not reflect this world – from the permanent members to what is its actual purpose.
Sure, the UN is full of craps and corrupted to the core but the UDHR is beyond the UN (since the UN doesn’t have much legal and political teeth to enforce the charter). Should the UN be abolished as a whole, the UDHR will survive and it would be adopted by a future confederation of western countries or the United States of America itself. I, for one, do not believe that human rights should be based on only religious or Islamic grounds. Doing so would negate the spirit of liberty in humanity.
That’s why Islam meant “submission”. It implies forced servitude to a deity from Arabia.
11 November, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Under the Hill,
The argument that I accept and agree with in regards to the Human Rights charter is that it is deficient in a number of aspects of identification of religous vilification and what is freedom of speech. That is where I think it fails. The UDHR is the basis for the structure of the UNHCR and the latter faces two problems, that flawed element in its charter as well as all the old-world structural problems of the UN itself.
I will agree to a point and expand that the current demands that are pushed by a number of countries taking benefit of the UNHCR and other committe make-up (and abusing the country numbers) has pushed a version of what HR should lool like and thus has made a mockery of it.
The basis for a revamped and more accurate UDHR should reflect all peoples and all faiths and that abuse of the critical foundations of those faiths is an abuse of human rights. Thus, it should not be for the benefit of Islam alone but all faiths. Collective attack on any faith should be considered a crime, sensitivities to be recognised and to a degree protected, that Freedom of Speech is not an excuse for Collective or coordinated freedom to hate.
Submission means personally accepting that the same God of Islam, Christianity and Judaism is the Creator and final abritator of us all.
11 November, 2009 at 4:31 pm
“Submission means personally accepting that the same God of Islam, Christianity and Judaism is the Creator and final abritator of us all.”
NO. In Islam, “submission” means submitting to koranic law, sharia, which has nothing whatever to do with either Christianity or Judaism.
Note how he tries to use a generalization which we believe to falsely define his terminology in a way that we will at worst only feel minimally threatened, or at best somewhat predisposed to it.
It is yet another typical Islamist propaganda technique.
11 November, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Shari’a? Which one? As I keep on pointing out the basics, Shari’a is not even accepted as a law in the majority of Muslim Countries.
To be technical Submission actually means ’submit to the will of God’ and that is all. Thus, we can say since Muslims accept Moses, Abraham and Jesus, that submission also includes the instructiosn sent by them and clarified by Mohammed.
Add to that, Submission to the word of God does not mean submission to the words of particular or specific Haddiths, since only the Qur’an is the Word of God to Muslims. That is the ethnical issue that is currently rocking the Muslim world.
All else is your own propoganda and reading d*ck-heads like Spencer.
11 November, 2009 at 5:07 pm
“To be technical Submission actually means ’submit to the will of God’ and that is all.”
Nope, sorry. Either you aren’t too bright and don’t understand your own religion, or you are deliberately attempting to deceives us.
“The Qur’an has one overriding theme, endlessly repeated and elaborated throughout the text: complete submission (in Arabic: islam ; muslim means “one who submits”) to the word and the will of God, who is one God and the only God. “
In other words, the Koran which you claim to be your only authority on islam DEMANDS
11 November, 2009 at 6:07 pm
“…only the Qur’an is the Word of God to Muslims.”
But it’s not, because many believe in the hadiths and traditions, as is proven by the quotes I’ve given. So, on whose authority, then, do you make your claim?
If you, and those with whom you agree, are the only ones entitled to interpret it, then how does that make you unbiased?
Keep digging, Solkhar, you have hit comedy gold.
11 November, 2009 at 5:13 pm
stupid keyboard. I didn’t even hit “return”
Anyway, …
That quote was from here, btw
http://wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/QURAN.HTM
(must be one of Spencer’s drinking buddies, perhaps? LOL)
continuing…
In other words, the Koran which you claim to be your only authority on islam DEMANDS total submission to THE WILL OF GOD, not just to believing in him. And the “WILL OF GOD” in Islam, means doing what your god tells you to do in the Koran. It’s a legal requirement, and Islamic law is sharia law.
And so what if many Muslim countries don’t yet comply with it? That doesn’t mean that isn’t what Islamists like yourself want and are working for by any and all means, including subterfuge.
…
11 November, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Your lack of knowledge or bias is getting to you.
Submitting to the Will of God is Islam – correct. Accepting the Qur’an as the Word of God is obviously correct.
Shari’a Law is not in the Qur’an but almost totally made up from items in the man-made Haddiths. Thus your rather rediculous accussation that I am an Islamist is laughable.
I will add that God in the Qur’an is the same God in the Torah and the Christian Bible.
Simply put, I do not need to give a nano-gram of value to a non-Muslim with an obvious bias and agenda to defame and attack Islam to tell me my religion that I chose some 30 years ago, let alone that I have practiced my faith, travelled and live within the Muslim world. Add to that having discussed, debated and argued with other Muslims, I can now speak and read in Arabic and have attended and watched all sorts of Imams and Clerics giving their interpretations and studies.
In other words, I will not try and teach you how to be an agenda-based fool and you do not have to pretend to tell me what is Islam.
11 November, 2009 at 5:44 pm
ANOTHER QUOTE FROM A MUSLIM WEBSITE… (…since he ignored my first)
“In the running of political affairs, God’s sovereignty is expressed in two ways:
[ a) ] The law (sharia) as derived from the holy Quran, the conduct of the Holy Prophet of Islam and also from the established traditions attributed to him by early Muslims are supreme. They bear essential guidelines for legislation with the express Will of God.
b) No legislative process would be valid in contradiction of the aforesaid principle.
Unfortunately, however, there is no unanimity among the scholars of various sects of Islam as to what are the clear cut Laws (Shariah). On this, all the scholars are agreed that legislation is the prerogative of God and that He has expressed His Will through the Quranic revelation to the Holy Founder of Islam.”
http://www.islamfortoday.com/islamicgovernment.htm
So, bottom line is, Solkhar agrees with that quote, and believes the Koran to be the ultimate final “Word Of God,” but that it can’t be interpreted clearly enough to understand what the heck it means, and yet everyone must submit to it.
And he says I suffer either from a “lack of knowledge or bias?”
Come on, Solkhar, I keep using Muslim quotes, but you keep pretending my only refs are from Spencer, who actually seems to know more about Islam than you do.
11 November, 2009 at 5:52 pm
You keep on quoting based on your interpretations, and that of a non-Muslim with an agenda, that is the answer.
I should also add that I can quote a number of Jewish or Christian websites that says things that perhaps most Jews and Christians may not either practice, accept or support at all. Then try and do what you are doing and say “come on, I am giving religous quotes”. Spencer does that BS all the time.
It is rather pathetic and I go back to what I said about my level of valuing your comments. Zip.
But, to be nice I ask you a question. Then why do most Muslims and Muslim nations not live under “Shari’a Law”?
Why is it that most Muslim countries are not “Islamic Republics or States” and use “Shurah Councils”.
It comes down to Clerics will support theocracies and thus promote and preach that this Shari’a Law is the demand under God. The key word you hit was “inspired by the Qur’an” and as the Grand Sheik of the Maliki School of Jurispudence in Fez said about Morocco not installing Shari’a is that by its very nature if the laws of the land follow the will of the people, that in this case is Islam, that it is in fact following the concept of Shari’a.
I am sure you did not get it, so it is really for the benefit of others.
11 November, 2009 at 6:09 pm
yonason Says:
11 November, 2009 at 6:07 pm
“…only the Qur’an is the Word of God to Muslims.”
But it’s not, because many believe in the hadiths and traditions, as is proven by the quotes I’ve given. So, on whose authority, then, do you make your claim?
If you, and those with whom you agree, are the only ones entitled to interpret it, then how does that make you unbiased?
Keep digging, Solkhar, you have hit comedy gold.
(this thread’s getting too long to keep straight, and I’ve got work to do)
11 November, 2009 at 6:36 pm
See what happens when a non-Muslim with a sinister agenda tries to tell a Muslim what Islam is? Errors!
The Qur’an is the word of God to Muslims. The Haddiths are references about the words and actions of Mohammed according to certain individuals.
BIG DIFFERENCE.
11 November, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Like I said, they all believe it’s “the word of god,” but they just don’t know what the heck it all means. Yet they want us to accept it’s conflicting psychotic ambiguities as “truth,” and submit to it anyway.
Comedy Gold.
11 November, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Solkhar: “I will add that God in the Qur’an is the same God in the Torah and the Christian Bible.”
You keep adding that, but the result is that your name will not be found in the Lmab’s book of life, and you will be blotted out for your blasphemies against Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on the cross for our sins, in spite of your lies and blasphemies.
You can “add” that until the day you die, but it will not make it true.
Flee from islam and its lies and blasphemies, Solkhar. Run for your life.
Judgement Day is coming – the Day of the Lord, not al Qiyamah.
11 November, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Solkhar, how do you reconcile with the fact that Muslims in Pakistan have incorporated sharia law into Pakistan legal code and constitution? Including a blasphemy law outlawing defamation of the prophet Muhammed, of which anyone is founded to break the law is to be put to death?
How do you reconcile that any Muslim is accused of apostasy from Islam (by converting to another religion) and is to be put to death for it?
Care to explain that or are you going to resort to using the generic term of “radicals” to describe the most intelligent and enlightened Muslim scholars who happily pushed sharia law into countries’ legal code?
12 November, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I think that going Shari’a is a big mistake and it comes from basic various forms of ignorance, falling for the pressures of the clerics and a problem of their own tribalistic presence in the west and north of the country. I was posted there for two years, I know the place.
Apostacy is not a death penalty in most Muslim countries’ laws – mind you the ignorant communities that are pushed by ultra-conservatives would probably put most Muslims in danger in the vast majority of countries.
There are four terms that I use. Radicals/Extremists are one group, ultra-conservative is another, islamists (small “i”) is a third and strong-conservative is the fourth.
Most Muslim scholars are by nature theocrats and thus follow one of a number of thelogoical schools of teachings. All of them support to varying degrees Shari’a Law and most wish it to be part of the legal system in some fashion. Having said that, not all do.
Radicals/Extremists will push their views on others, even by force and condemn those that do not follow their views. They will support terrorists financially but mostly avoid beign a terror themselves. Ultra-conservative which follow a particular faith will condemn otehrs, perhaps give finance to terrorists but usually stick to themselves. Many clerics are in this group. “islamists” (small “i”) are those that have linked to political and revolutionary groups and are the terrorists or those that are willing, if necessary, to kill and attack for their agenda. Strong-conservatives are in fact the majority of Muslims, they are mostly uneducated, iliterate and very poor and their access to education is usually run by ultra-conservative clerics or radical groupings. They are not interested in pushing faith, fighting others but are easily pursuaded by those around them.
12 November, 2009 at 2:16 pm
“Most Muslim scholars are by nature theocrats and thus follow one of a number of thelogoical schools of teachings. All of them support to varying degrees Shari’a Law and most wish it to be part of the legal system in some fashion.”
Yeah, Islamic “scholars” don’t know nuthin. Converts like Solkhar are the REAL experts.
Comedy Gold!
Just how does the “most Muslims are good” follow from “most Muslim clerics are radical?” Because the common Muslim in the street knows more than the “scholars” about what Islam really means?
Nugget after nugget of pure Comedy Gold.
Oh, and here’s a slightly OT illustration, but also good for a laugh
http://www.thirdworldcounty.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/obama-osama.jpeg
12 November, 2009 at 12:37 am
“See what happens when a non-Muslim with a sinister agenda tries to tell a Muslim what Islam is? Errors!”
It is allah’s agenda that is sinister, Solkhar. See what happens when a muslim tries to assert as fact to a Christian that the “god” of islam is the same as the god of the Bible? The muslim really doesn’t have a clue,
and doesn’t want one.
Here are a few clues, anyway:
“I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep.” John 10:11
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10:27
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. John 10:28
I and [my] Father are one. Jhn 10:30
“Prosthelitizing” (sic)?
Possibly, Solkhar, but I cannot let your lies and blasphemies go unchallenged.