Texas: Student Suspended for Expressing Religious View that Homosexuality is Wrong

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Student Suspended for Saying Gay Is Wrong

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FORT WORTH, Texas – A Fort Worth high school student was sent to the principal’s office earlier this week for telling another classmate he believes homosexuality is wrong.

Fourteen-year-old Dakota Ary spent most of the day Tuesday serving an in-school suspension. It was punishment for discussion in his German class at Fort Worth’s Western Hills High School.

“We were talking about religions in Germany. I said, ‘I’m a Christian. I think being a homosexual is wrong,’” he said. “It wasn’t directed to anyone except my friend who was sitting behind me. I guess [the teacher] heard me. He started yelling. He told me he was going to write me an infraction and send me to the office.”

Um…  Yeah, I’m willing to lay odds that the German teacher is a rump-rider.

An assistant principal called Ary’s mother at work to let her know he was in trouble.

Hm…  I think I just figured out who the German teacher’s riding partner is…

“At first I was in disbelief. My son is on the honor roll with great grades. I don’t have any problems out of him,” Holly Pope said.

After hearing Ary’s explanation of what happened, the assistant principal reduced the original suspension from two days to one. But Pope was not satisfied with that.

“He was stating an opinion. He has a right to do that. They punished him for it,” she said.

Attorney Matt Krause joined Ary and his mom at a Wednesday morning meeting with the principal. They asked for the blemish to be taken off his record and reassurance there would be no retaliation.

Students don’t lose their first amendment rights just because they go in the schoolhouse door,” Krause said.

Exactly!

District spokesman Clint Bond said the Fort Worth Independent School District does not comment on specific employee or student-related issues.

“We are following district policy in our review of the circumstances and any resolution will likewise be in accordance with district policy,” Bond said.

If Ary continues taking German he’ll have to learn from the same teacher who punished him. His mom is relying on faith that things will work out.

“I want to believe the school will make the right decision. That’s something the school will need to handle,” she said.

Explore posts in the same categories: Abuse of Power, Education, Family, Gay Agenda, Indoctrination, Liberals, Orwellian, Parenting, propaganda, Religion, U.S. Constitution

33 Comments on “Texas: Student Suspended for Expressing Religious View that Homosexuality is Wrong”


  1. IF ‘district policy’ means that you cannot speak against the liberal ‘theocrazy’ of gay wrongs ER rights…

    Then of course it means that this young man is in dire s***…


  2. While reviewing the school policies on thier websites here is some interesting reading:

    FWISD CAMPAIGN SAYS “IT’S NOT OKAY”

    http://www.fwisd.org/News/Pages/2010-11-18_It'sNotOkay.aspx

    http://www.fwisd.org/safe/Documents/Bullying%20Assessment%20tools.pdf

    Student handbook of that city:

    http://www.fwisd.org/services/Documents/scoc.pdf

    Which of course means that his words spoken by the student in this article are ‘classified’ by the school district as ‘bullying’. Which of course is the new liberals way of taking away students freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of religion etc.

    Time to vote out all liberals in the Fort worth school district and remove the political power of the gays and lesbians there as well.

  3. tgusa Says:

    The boys opinion is that homosexuality is wrong. In response the teacher and district turned his opinion into a valid point. These people are not all that different from sexual molesters of children, actually they may be even worse. Perhaps we need a list to put them on. Or maybe they can get together with islamists and they can inquisition each other to their black hearts content.

  4. Pete Says:

    Excuse me if I upset any bible thumpers out there, but GOD never said homosexuality was wrong.

    genesis1:26
    Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

    Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness”, god did not say ONLY heterosexual mankind, or only white or black or blue mankind, but ALL mankind.

    Many people’s beliefs toward homosexuality and actions towards homosexuals are religiously based in the old testament – the history and laws of the Jews. The Egyptians, the Babylonians the Assyrians the Hittites and the Philistines had no problems with homosexuality. Sexuality in ancient Egypt was open, untainted by guilt. Why then did ONLY the Jews consider homosexuality an abomination in the eyes of god when god never said it was? Now some jewish rabbi wrote in leviticus 20:13 “If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination.”

    NOW take off your rose colored glasses, open up your eyes and think. Why would a rabbi write this? You do realize god did not come down from heaven, pick up a pen and write the old testament, it was a bunch of rabbis. Reading history of that time you realize that there were not many Jews in the 12 Jewish tribes in comparison to those that lived around them. In order to survive you must procreate. Unfortunately for homosexuals that is one thing they do not do, if the death rate exceeds the birth rate the jews are sent to the dust bin of history. Thus as far as the ancient Jews were concerned to stop homosexuality it must be an abomination in the eyes of god punishable by death.

    Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. Though he did mention Sodom and Gomorrah, using them as examples of inhospitality to strangers–AND neglecting to mention “sodomy.” Christians believe that Jesus is the son of god, second Person of the Blessed Trinity, now if god said what the Jewish rabbis said he said in the old testament WHY did Jesus not repeat it to reinforce gods commandment against homosexuality? Perhaps because god only said “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness…”.

    The paucity of references to homosexuality in the New Testament suggests that it was not a matter of major concern either for Jesus or for the early Christian movement. Thus when Ary stated he believed homosexuality was wrong he stated he believed what the ancient rabbis wrote was correct, unfortunately the rabbis were wrong and Ary is wrong. Also the Fort Worth’s Western Hills High School is also wrong. There is this constitutional amendment about free speech. Ary was stating his belief, he was not calling someone a homosexual, or making fun of homosexuals, only stating his religious belief. His German teacher apparently thought he was back in Germany of 1940 and he was a member of the SS, wrong on both counts. The teacher and the principle need to apologize to Ary and even though the class was talking about religions in Germany Ary’s religious beliefs should be kept outside the school.

    • Gonzo Says:

      First things first. Hebrews 13:4, Paul exhorted us to honor the marriage bed and keep it pure. In Romans 1:26-27 Paul is very specific, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.” In 1 Corinthians 6:9, Paul wrote, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.” The Greek word from which the King James Bible gets the word “effeminate” is malakos, which literally means something soft to the touch, but is used as a negative metaphor to refer to a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man. The “abusers of themselves with mankind” are those men who engage in unnatural sexual relations with other men – homosexuals.

      So there are texts in the Bible that would support a persons belief that homosexuality is addressed in the Bible.

      Second, a theological discussion about homosexuality in the Bible has absolutely nothing to do with the event in the Texas school, which relates to freedom of speech. Article 18 of the UN’s resolution on human rights also grants to everyone the right to freedom of belief.

      Whats missing in the original news article is context. Was the youngin’ simply engaged in a discussion with a fellow classmate and the teacher simply took offense (waaaaaaa), or was it the latest in a long line of attacks against an individual for the mere purpose of harassment. In my opinion, there is a significant difference.

      • Pete Says:

        Is Paul god? No, he was a Roman who persecuted the Christians, then had this miraculous conversion that only Paul was witness to and due to this conversion was able to infiltrate the upper echelon of the new christian movement. If you read the history of this time, there were many Jewish movements trying to end the Roman occupation of Judea. The Romans were suspicious of all of them and in Paul they had a spy in this new christian movement.

        Paul in his writings (which were his beliefs) leaned heavily on the old testament, where as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John leaned heavily on the teachings of Jesus. So whatever Paul says about homosexuality is Paul’s beliefs influenced by the old testament, the words of rabbis, not gods words. It is important to remember, Paul is a Roman, who believed in the Roman gods, he never met Jesus like the other disciples of Jesus and in order to fit in with them (virtually all of whom were Jews) he needed to learn the old testament.

        It is important to understand that the words against homosexuality in the old testament were not gods but the words of men (rabbis) who had an agenda. Likewise the words against homosexuality in the new testament were not the words of Jesus but the words of men with an agenda.

        What we have in this article is the ideas and words of godless leftist who want to remove god from society. Eliminate freedom of speech (or speech that dissents from what THEY believe in). Just look at western Europe to see what will happen if the leftists are allowed to do the same over here.


        • Pete,

          Neither can I find anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said homosexuality was an acceptable practice. However, Jesus did say, “…Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female…For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

          Yup, you’re right; No mention of God’s approval concerning male and male becoming one flesh…

          Furthermore, your whole thesis seems to revolve around the unsubstantiated hypothesis that Paul’s writings, along with the Old Testament, are not God’s word. How can one truly know this for fact? It is useless for one to argue the validity or invalidity of Paul’s epistles with a gnostic such as yourself. Therefore, having no great desire to squander time, nor possessing the need to prove nor disprove Paul’s writings in discussing homosexuality, I will skip over Paul and go right to the heart of the matter; the authority of the Old Testament:

          If the Old Testament does not contain God’s word, then one does wonder why it is that Jesus continually references and defers to scripture from the Old Testament as being the divine authority behind him and his actions. If the books in the Old Testament were merely written by man and not reflecting the word of God, then there is no reason for Jesus to adduce them in support of himself.

          Furthermore, Jesus said, “love your neighbor as yourself,” referencing it as one of God’s greatest commandments (Matthew 19:16-19, Matthew 22:25-40, Mark 12:28-34, Luke 10:27-28 ), yet this is not one of the 10 Commandments. The place in the Old Testament where one finds this commandment is in Leviticus (19:18&34); the very same book you have chosen to discount, stating, in essence, that it was written merely by Jewish rabbis with an agenda and, as such, holds no weight. If this were the case, then it certainly does appear odd that Jesus chose to define that particular commandment—which is found in Leviticus—as the second greatest commandment in God’s law.

          Therefore, I find your foundational hypothesis to be flawed. You have very adroitly rationalized the entire affair to your own satisfaction, yet your deductions are based upon complete fallacies. You have, in effect, elected to pick and choose what you, personally, deem valid; completely discarding anything in scripture which is contrary to your own personal feelings. Since when did you become the official arbiter of what is and is not God’s valid word in the Bible? No need to answer, it’s a rhetorical question.

          But, I digress. Continuing on:

          Jesus said, “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.”

          Therefore, even Jesus admits that his teachings are incomplete.

          Just because Jesus does not specifically mention homosexuality, that does not mean that he is giving his tacit approval. He didn’t specifically mention pedophilia or zoophilia either, for that matter. Are we to assume that he approves of those, too, and we should be teaching them to our children just because he didn’t specifically say we shouldn’t? Certainly not. So why are we to assume that Jesus approves of homosexuality just because he didn’t specifically mention it by name?

          When you get right down to the crux of it, homosexuality, sex with prepubescent children, zoophilia, etc., etc., are nothing more than sexual perversions and lusts. It doesn’t matter if you were supposedly born that way or not. These are unnatural acts as they do not propagate the species. Ergo, they are sexual perversions.

          Even if you stubbornly refuse to admit that homosexuality is a sexual perversion, you cannot escape the fact that rump-riding is, by its very nature, a sexual act; or, “fornication,” as it were:

          “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man…” (Matthew 15:19-20 KJV)

          Are you so deluded as to think that Jesus—the same guy who said merely looking at a woman lustfully is akin to committing the sin of adultery with her in your heart—would suddenly make a special exception when it comes to man-on-man rump-riding? Give me a break.

          Cheers

    • Leatherneck Says:

      Pushing poop is reprobate, and is one part of a full court press by the New Age to destroy morality in this world.

  5. Red Alarm Says:

    Here’s the teacher’s name for what’s is worth. Kristopher Franks

  6. Chris Says:

    There was a time when people made moral judgements about people who were left-handed. The words “sinister” and “gauche” come from the root words for being left-handed. A person’s sexual orientation is a quirk of nature, not unlike being right-handed or left-handed. Nobody chooses to be gay anymore than someone choses to be left-handed. Yes, there are offensive sexual manifestations by both homo- and hetero-sexual people, but the sexual orientation itself is not something about which moral judgements should be made. We should understand this much better today than when the sacred texts were written.


    • “A person’s sexual orientation is a quirk of nature, not unlike being right-handed or left-handed. Nobody chooses to be gay anymore than someone choses to be left-handed.”

      There’s so much wrong with that statement that I don’t even know where to begin. So, for the sake of argument, let me just go ahead and accept your premise:

      What you’re saying, in effect, is that pedophiles are also just a quirk of nature and so we, as a society, should just embrace their perverted ways. Maybe change a few age of consent laws and let them adopt children. Maybe let them marry little kids, after all, we don’t want to deny them equal rights, now do we?

      No matter how you try to justify it, perverted is still perverted and wrong is still wrong.

      Cheers

      • tgusa Says:

        Ted Bundy enjoyed murdering and then sodomizing women, yes, that is the correct order, for him, he may have been born that way.


        • Hey, it’s just a quirk of nature. Nobody chooses to be a murdering necrophiliac anymore than someone “choses” to be left-handed!

          /sarcasm

          Cheers

          • tgusa Says:

            Here we are accelerating towards a clash of civilizations the size and scope of which has never been seen before. As you know it is basically a battle between a dark age mentality and modern civilization. Meanwhile, some of our own have declared war on the rest of us. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Funny thing is, modern leftism has more in common with the dark ages than it does with modern civilization. Perhaps modern leftism is a mental disorder and perhaps they were just born that way, it really doesn’t matter in the end.

            What we have here is not a failure to communicate but fundamental irreconcilable differences. It appears as if we were born that way, you know,it’s sort of a lefthanded righthanded thing. Maybe a divorce is the only solution. We can pray for their salvation as they head down the road to destruction. The sooner we split and leftists have to begin putting their butts on the line and defend what they believe the sooner we will find that they won’t.

  7. jj Says:

    When God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves… Genesis 1:26, he was saying that the triune God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) would create man as a triune being (Soul, Body, Spirit). We are made “LIKE” him. We are three in one. It has nothing to do with s*x. It also indicates that as a human being, our bodies are like clay pots that house our soul and spirit. God wants us to invite Him in and dwell with us. That is why Jesus said to be born again. That is what being born again means. It also indicates that we can have other spirits indwelling our bodies, which is what is happening with the homosexual. The spirit in them is not of God, and unless they fix that, they will never be free. Here’s the drill: admit you are a sinner (sins here are lust and pride), be willing to turn away from the sin (homosexuals think they are born that way – not true), ask God to forgive them (He will), ask God to be their Lord and Savior), ask God to fill them with His Spirit. Our part is to believe it (have faith). Those sins won’t want to let go. But ask God and He will evict them. Expect a fight… a big one!


  8. Hmmm I wondered if Id piss off some liberals overnight.

    For chris,

    In my experience as a classmate of gay boys and lesbians. It was THIER CHOICE to act upon thier desires or lusts. They were NOT born gay or lesbian they chose to follow those lusts that killed them.

    • tgusa Says:

      Many parents have been concerned that homosexuals were bullies that could not tolerate other people’s opinions. Homosexuals have put those concerns to rest, now they know for sure. Perhaps they were just born that way. Most of us are interested in what homosexuals are now, today, AIDs, homosexual priests and now the abusive teacher/social engineer/opinion police, that’s what I see. Most normal parents who desire that their kids grow up and avoid dysfunctional lifestyles are not going to put the interests of homosexuals above their own children.

      By their fruits we will know them…hmmm.


  9. For pete

    God as the Creator of humanity made us from both Adam and Eve. This of course means we are made male or female.

    How does sodomy, lesbianism, zoophilia, pedophilia and more fit into creation?

    It doesnt…

    Sexuality in its many forms is abused by we the creation and we have made a mess of physical acts that were reserved for a married man and married woman.

    Sorry to ruin your philosophy…

    Lastly Ill point out…

    The leftist political activity has changed America not for the better but by making homosexuality and lesbians a neo-race they have made un-necessary changes to biological and sociteies traditions that can only end in suffering and destruction of us all.

  10. Big Frank Says:

    What is this world coming to ? The ‘Thought Police’ are hard at work in Texas destroying free speech and the individuals right to have an opinion contrary to the administration. Well, it’s not over Texas is in the ‘bible belt’, and the outcome will be interesting.


  11. Quite the philosophy from pete about homosexuality…

    1 God did not create homosexuals or lesbians. Human lust did.

    2 sodomy and lesbianism were sex acts in multiple cultures but they were not recognized under marriage or other types of cultural or political doctrine.

    3 Since I doubt we know the political attitudes of sodomy and lesbian of every culture in the Middle East through history we can only maske alot of assumptions about it.

    4 I find that making alot of wild guesses about God somehow creating sodomites and lesbians along with we straights without mereit. No such evidence exsists in nature or archeology to verify such claims.

    • Pete Says:

      islams not for me, (I like your screen name)

      1, Sorry, but if you believe in genesis, than god did.

      2, You are partially correct, religion has had a lock on marriage probably since before written history. Deciphering texts of the Sumerians and Elamites (probably the earliest written language and history) show marriage was between a man and a woman and with very few exceptions down through history that’s the way it was.

      As far as culture, all through out the Eastern Mediterranean there are paintings on pottery, reliefs chiseled in stone and some written manuscripts showing the people at the time of the bible and some time before and after really did not look down on homosexuality. Take for instance Alexander the Great and his boyhood friend Hephaiston or Achilles and his best friend and lover Patroklos, True one could not say that Alexander was a true homosexual but rather he was what today would be considered bi, he had several wives and a great many concubines. Even in Japan homoerotic images, of beautiful temple acolytes, date from the Heian (794-1185) and Kamakura (1185-1333) periods, when Japan was under pervasive Buddhist influence. At this time, Buddhist monasteries had become renowned as sites for homosexual love.
      I am not quite sure what you mean by political doctrine – if by that you mean that homosexuals were legally killed, only in Judea did that appear to happen.

      3, The political attitudes toward sodomy and lesbianism can be seen in any museum that has a fairly extensive collection of ancient artifacts from the Eastern Mediterranean.

      4, Sorry again you are wrong, ask any zoologist or animal behaviorists, male (and to a lesser extent female) homosexuality is widely practiced in the animal kingdom (with the possible exception of fish), Homosexual behaviour has been observed in over 1,500 animal species. see

      http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

      http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

      as far as archeology see #3.

      Religion and religious beliefs are strongly held by many people in many lands. Some are fanatics (see islam). I am an agnostic. Is there a god? Could be or maybe not – but I find it interesting that you can not find a culture any where in history that was 100% atheistic. Were all these 100’s of billions of people who believed in a god or gods deluded? Highly unlikely. I read religious texts not as a believer but as a historian to find out the why behind those texts which were written by man.

      The leftist in Europe and in the US seem to want to be the first by trying to drive god out of society. They will fail, political correctness be damned. After reading a little more on the story the Fort Worth’s Western Hills High School was 100% wrong.


      • “4, Sorry again you are wrong, ask any zoologist or animal behaviorists, male (and to a lesser extent female) homosexuality is widely practiced in the animal kingdom (with the possible exception of fish), Homosexual behaviour has been observed in over 1,500 animal species. “

        Cannibalism has been observed in over 1,500 animal species, too. Does that mean I can eat you?

        Also, infanticide has been observed in numerous animal species; even in primates. Does that mean you don’t have any problems with parents who murder their children? Care to try out that lame defense before a judge and jury?

        Furthermore, dogs lick their balls in public, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay for us to join in. After all, aren’t we suppose to be the dominant, civilized species on this planet and not just some dumb animal humping any leg that passes by?

        Cheers

        • Pete Says:

          Strawman, strawman, this article is not about cannibalism or infanticide or dogs licking their balls in public. This article is about a student in what appears in all that I have read about this incident, in a normal conversation saying to another student based on his religious belief that homosexuality is wrong, and a leftist gestapo teacher going full PC on him, which if you read any of my posts I clearly stated the teacher and the school was wrong to do so.

          In my last post to islams not for me, I showed based on FACT not BELIEF that statement #4 was untrue, homosexuality is rampant in nature. We (mankind) are at the top of the food chain does that mean nature does not affect us? There also are explicit laws in virtually every country in the world against cannibalism or infanticide or you licking your balls in public. You are entitled to and to have your beliefs, many like you believe homosexuality is wrong, if that is what you want to believe nothing I can say will change your mind. I have found that when you try to have a debate with a political or religious fanatic facts always loose.

          I do not believe homosexuality is right or wrong – it is a fact of life and I try to deal in facts not beliefs. When I study religious texts (holy books) as stated before I do not do so as a believer but as a historian would. Did god come down and whisper in the ear of a rabbi what to write in the bible or was the rabbi influenced by historical facts around him at the time? I believe in historical facts.

          I find that all holy books contain some contradictions and implausibility in them, many were written over centuries by different men. The holy book with the most contradiction and implausibility is islam. If as muslims say allah is infallible and the qur’an was told only to mohammed then based on facts, islam and the qur’an is a lie as told by mohammed.


  12. Quite intelligent pete

    Obviously we can agree to disagree.

    “I do not believe homosexuality is right or wrong – it is a fact of life and I try to deal in facts not beliefs”

    I personally do not believe that homosexuality is right. Nor do I believe that they should be regarded through political means so called ‘special rights’. I base my research on their own writings and what we know of biology.

    I can agree with you here:

    “When I study religious texts (holy books) as stated before I do not do so as a believer but as a historian would.”

    I base my faith not on blindness but evidence. Otherwise I would be an atheist or agnostic too.


  13. Pete,

    “In my last post to islams not for me, I showed based on FACT not BELIEF that statement #4 was untrue, homosexuality is rampant in nature. We (mankind) are at the top of the food chain does that mean nature does not affect us?”

    You misunderstand my intention. I am not contesting your rebuttal of Islams Not For Me. Clearly INFM made a statement without adducing a supporting link [like this: There Is No “Homosexual Instinct” In Animals, and this: Gay Penguin Flies Straight ], which left him open to further debate. My intention was to merely point out that when you get right down to it, it doesn’t matter what the animal kingdom does. We are humans. As such, we have cast off our base animal instincts and created this little thing we call “civilization.”

    Civilization requires its citizenry to adhere to a set of rules found nowhere else in the animal kingdom. It pretty much sets man apart from the beasts. That which is detrimental to civilization is deemed bad, that which is beneficial to civilization is deemed good. Proponents of homosexuality think that just because some animals engage in temporary homosexual behavior, homosexuality is justified. I contend that this is not justification for homosexuality, just as cannibalism and infanticide in the animal kingdom in no way provide a tenable rationale for such acts in a civilized society. That is all.

    “I do not believe homosexuality is right or wrong – it is a fact of life and I try to deal in facts not beliefs. When I study religious texts (holy books) as stated before I do not do so as a believer but as a historian would.”

    Interesting that you impart great importance on the history of civilization, yet you do not choose to use history as an aid in determining if homosexuality and the immorality which springs forth from it are beneficial or detrimental to a civilized society—which would answer the question of right and wrong in a more humanistic, less religious, context.

    Are there any civilizations in history in which homosexuality and debauchery were the harbingers of good things to come? I don’t know, I haven’t personally seen any; whenever I encounter an historic account of a civilization embracing homosexuality, it is as if the fat lady has begun warming up her vocal chords. Therefore, it would appear from what I can gather from historic accounts that homosexuality and immorality are wrong for a healthy society.

    Perhaps you can be the one to find historic proof that civilizations tend to soar to great new zeniths once debauchery and homosexuality have been fully embraced by its citizenry. In the meantime, Rome seems to make a nice historical case study as to what happens to a civilization which gives in to its carnal desires and lusts.

    Even ex-President Bill Clinton contends that one of the top 10 signs that a civilization is nearing its collapse is its embrace of immorality and homosexuality. Of course, he being a politician and not wanting to offend any significant group of voters, aimed his criticism at the entertainment industry, but I am sure you can read between the lines:

    Another sign of the end of the civilization is the prevalence of base and immoral entertainment.
    In its last days, Rome had become a society with an insatiable appetite for debauchery and immorality. Perverted entertainment translated into perverted speech and behavior. The Roman society began to accept and encourage open homosexuality. The people turned away from God and forgot his commandments and precepts, and Rome crumbled. And today, our culture has begun to embrace the same kind of entertainment. In music, a song eulogizing a murdered rap star has held the top spot on the charts for two months. Many of our movies now feature heroes who triumph by copying the vises of the villains. Television has scuttled its family hour for more dramas and sitcoms that treat perversion as normal behavior. Wholesome entertainment is becoming a forgotten relic. “

    Gee, wouldn’t it be nice if Bill Clinton had just actually practiced what he preached? The office of the President has never fully recovered since that whole Monica Lewinsky thing… Yet another example of debauchery helping to destroy a civilization…

    Anyway, great to have you aboard, Peter. Feel free to make yourself at home.

    Cheers


  14. Dr B,

    Yes… I suppose I coulda taken the time to look up links to counter petes link evidence about ‘gay’ animals. I assumed that pete was a mere ‘sniper’ commenter who would fly by and drop his particular knowledge or philosphy and go away.

    Obviously he has a specific philosophy about this subject and is quite passionate about it.

    I have read the so called evidence of ‘gay’ animals and it doesnt seem to work in thier favor at least in my POV.

    Homosexuality has been in every civilization and culture in this wide world. And yet through my own lense of history I have not found enough evidence to support ideas that sodomy and lesbianism was somehow supportive of the cultures and times they were in niether can I find enough evidence that homosexuality and lesbianism were a culture or civilization in order to provide proof positive that those types of acts were considered normal by the varied religions that lived before or after Christianity.

    It is obvious from petes comments that he thinks that we as Christians are in the wrong about our attitudes and suppossedly out dated beliefs in regards to ‘same sex marriage’ homosexuality’ and the legal / political arm of the left in regards to ‘special rights’ groups.

    And yet time and history have proved us right that homosexuality and so forth have not provided anything to civilizations profit only its downfall…

    • Pete Says:

      Sorry to disappoint you islams not for me but I am NOT a mere ‘sniper’ commenter who would fly by and drop his particular knowledge or philosphy and go away. I have been reading Doctor Bulldog for quite a few years and occasionally posting. I do not post all the time because I usually agree with Doctor Bulldog, but sometimes like now I agree with his opinion on the teacher and the school but disagree with his and some other posters religious beliefs which color his and their ideas on homosexuality.

      Like Doctor Bulldogs take on the fall of Rome does not stand up to historical facts,

      “Rome did not fall because of the distractions pursuant to sexual indulgence. Given the universality of Christianity which the Romans had adopted as their exclusive religion by then, the conduct of those living in the fifth century after Christ was relatively sober. Indeed, if the data point to any venereal villains across the great expanse of Roman history, it is the Julio-Claudians who oversaw the height of Roman power in the first century CE and were truly perpetrators of immorality at large. So, to make an argument relating sexual behavior to Rome’s “fall”—and to judge it fairly from the historical evidence—involves the ludicrous conclusion that the erotic felonies of a Caligula or Nero, in fact, sustained Rome’s triumph, instead of corroding it at its core. That suggests that, to prevent the collapse of their society, the Romans should have kept the orgies up, so to speak, which is patently ridiculous.”

      see

      http://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320Hist&Civ/chapters/08ROMFAL.htm

      allot some time to reading this because it is quite long.

      Unfortunately these posts have evolved from how wrong the teacher and the school are to a confrontation between religious belief and historical evidence on homosexuality. No matter what I say or what evidence I show you and and others posting here will believe their religious beliefs. You and Doctor Bulldog believe homosexuality is immoral and wrong, as I have tried to show it depends on where you are and in what time frame of history you are in. Also I have broken one of my commandments – never debate someone with strong political or religious beliefs with facts – facts always loose.

      Now I hope your screen name means what you also believe in because if it doesn’t, I will be happy to toss out some of my commandments and be happy to debate you on the indisputable fact that islam is a cult of violence – destruction – and death and NOT a religion of peace. Islam grates me the wrong way.


      • Read my comments again. I NEVER said that homosexuality was the singular causality in the fall of Rome. I said, “whenever I encounter an historic account of a civilization embracing homosexuality, it is as if the fat lady has begun warming up her vocal chords.”

        She’s not singing, she’s warming up.

        The fall of a civilization is rarely one singular event; it is a combination of factors that pile up to break the camel’s back.

        BTW – If you scrutinize the first sentence in the paragraph immediately following the paragraph you posted from your link, you will note something:

        “Simply put, sex—reproduction maybe, but not sex!—had little or nothing to do with the troubles that brought the Romans to their collective knees in later antiquity. ”

        That’s an admission by the author that lasciviousness could have played a small part in the decline of Rome and cannot be completely discounted.

        Anyway, be that as it may, if you read the rest of the page, the author concludes that one major causality for the devolution of Rome centers around the fact that Rome simply stopped protecting its citizens in the 5th century A.D., which escalated into a mass exodus of its citizens over the ensuing years.

        Obama might want to think about that before continuing his endless crusade to gut the military. Uh… Wait… On second thought; Maybe we shouldn’t give him anymore ideas—just in case he actually is trying to destroy America.

        Cheers

        P.S. – Thank you for the link. Very interesting information. I’ve bookmarked it.


  15. Pete

    You’ve made your POV (Point of view) quite clear about the issue or subject of homosexuality. So to continue to debate about this subject will not change my mind, nor my opinions about homosexuality nor will my POV change your opinions, nor change your mind.

    As you have already proven we can drop link evidence to prove or disprove about homosexuality all day long but it is up to we the individual to believe or disbelieve that evidence.

    As a skeptic of homosexuality and thier claims my position has been made clear. And it is not merely my ‘religion’ that makes me a skeptic but the culture I live in and thier claims I have read online and in books.

    So it is best to drop this issue…

    As for my screen name.

    Islam is a subject I have been studying about since 2005. I have read the quran multiple times and have gathered information about islam from its followers and from its documents online.

    I agree that the islamic system is a long term atrocity that has not benefited mankind but created a theocratic mess that has destroyed every person and country it has wandered into.

    My screen name says it best… “Islams not for me” I have no use being a ‘arab’ going to mosque, reading the rotten quran, bowing to a fake god called ‘allah’ or joining the mujahedeen to go do ‘jihad’ in the USA, Canada, Philippines etc.

    • Pete Says:

      This is quite off topic (and I hope I don’t get into trouble) but has to do with your last post. Up until I retired in the early 90’s I really did not give islam a second thought. Like the bible I read the qur’an and found it almost totally confusing – unlike the bible it does not follow a chronological order, but thanks to sites like jihadwatch and G of V, I am no longer confused. During the breakup of Yugoslavia I was shocked by what I though was the mass killings of muslims by the Serbs. Then I started my travels around the world, mostly visiting museums in Europe (my wife calls me a museum junkie, she likes to shop). Did you know the Bosnian muslims were allied with the nazis in WW2? The grand mufti of Jerusalem helped recruit several devisions of muslim SS forces that killed 10’s of thousands of Serbs in WW2 – hatred lasts a long time in this part of the world. Did you know that Kosovo had been part of Serbia off and on for centuries (in this area land changed hands often due to wars). There is a large monument here in Kosovo (Gazimestan) commemorating the battle of Kosovo (in 1389) where the prince of Serbia and most of his army were killed trying to stop the muslim advance. Thanks to Clinton the muslims now have Kosovo and much of what you may have read in the news papers about this war and the KLA was a lie, the KLA is a muslim terrorist organization.

      In my travels I took off my rose colored glasses and opened my eyes – islam is a threat to civilization. Besides reading the qur’an here are a few links that may help you understand the threat of islam and what it really is.

      http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

      http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1474.htm

      http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm

      And muslims own sites are good, this one saves me an enormous amount of time looking up a word in the hadiths or the qur’an, it gives an amazing amount of information on what a muslim is thinking, when I read the english language version of many European newspapers muslims posting there like to burry the “stupid infidel” under a mountain of al-Taqiyya (basically lies or half truths). Using this site I can go to the source, refute them and I hardly ever hear from them again.

      http://www.searchtruth.com/hadith_books.php

      I use the first 2 headings quran and hadith the rest are basically almost useless information.

      Besides the qur’an you should read the hadiths and the sunna to help understand the qur’an better. They give additional meaning behind the Surahs and help interpret their meanings.

      I hope I have helped you and like with Doctor Bulldog I agree with “almost all” of your posts.


  16. By the way pete,

    I have read of or heard of the jihadi history before. In my local library we have a small collection of history books from various authors about jihads sick history.

    Books:

    Jihad Joe : Americans who go to war in the name of Islam
    by Berger, J. M. (John M.)

    Future Jihad : terrorist strategies against America
    by Phares, Walid, 1957-

    Jihad in the West : Muslim conquests from the 7th to the 21st centuries
    by Fregosi, Paul.

    The legacy of Jihad : Islamic holy war and the fate of non-Muslims
    Publisher, Date: Amherst, N.Y. : Prometheus Books, 2005.

    The politically incorrect guide to Islam (and the Crusades) by Spencer, Robert, 1962-

    Islamic imperialism : a history by Karsh, Efraim.

    Or online:

    http://www.historyofjihad.org/


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